Evidence of meeting #7 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
That is the only time he was stationed in Kandahar.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
He came down from Kabul on visits, for example, accompanying ministers or MPs who were touring.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Okay. And he replaced you for a period of time, and then you relieved him when you came back in June 2006?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
Yes. I both preceded and followed Mr. Colvin in Kandahar.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Okay. And when you arrived back in Kandahar, did you have a debriefing session with him?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
We didn't overlap on that occasion. What I received at the PRT was a written briefing note.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
And did anything in his written briefing note touch on the issue of abuse of prisoners?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
No, there was nothing to that effect in the note.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Okay.
Mr. Grant, you said “I am puzzled by Mr. Colvin's comments”. So my question to both of you gentlemen is, why do you think Mr. Colvin would not have mentioned something back in 2006 and would then raise the allegations much later, in 2009? Why would he do that, and what do you think his motivations are for doing such a thing?
4:35 p.m.
MGen Timothy Grant
I have no idea. I saw Richard on numerous occasions, both when he came to Kandahar to visit and when I went to Kabul on business. Unlike General Gauthier, I don't think I scared Richard, but at no point did he come and say, “General, there is an issue”.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
It's curious to me that if that was his responsibility at the time and he was concerned, he wouldn't have raised it. I just find that curious.
Mr. Buchan, what's your view on that?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
I won't presume to speak for Richard or on his motivations. What I will say is that in April 2007 there were some very vigorous exchanges between the embassy in Kabul and headquarters in which he put forward strong and I believe entirely legitimate views. But the key thing here is timing. Those views were expressed in April 2007, and not in the period prior.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Right, and then what happened once you received those allegations and those concerns from him? What did you do?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
They weren't actually allegations at that stage. It was in the period following the appearance of the allegations in The Globe and Mail. And there was a very serious debate as to what Canada should be doing and what options could be followed up to achieve the greatest effect. At that point Richard felt that more could be done than was initially proposed.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
And what happened? What was the result of those concerns?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
At the end of the day, I believe most of them were incorporated into the structure of the 2007 agreement. In particular, he felt very strongly that we needed hands-on Canadian monitoring, and that is something we negotiated and we now have.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Okay.
Mr. Buchan, when the 2005 arrangement was being negotiated, did you ever brief the then Minister of Defence or Minister of Foreign Affairs with respect to that arrangement?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
No. And I should clarify my role in 2005. At the time I was but a lowly deputy director at headquarters, and my engagement extended only through April or May of 2005, at which point I moved to another assignment, so I did not see the end of that process.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON
What do you think the then Minister of Defence or Minister of Foreign Affairs would have known about the transfer of prisoners in 2005 and the arrangement that was being negotiated and ultimately signed with the Afghan government at that time?
4:35 p.m.
Former Political Director, Kandahar Provincial Reconstruction Team, Department of National Defence
I really can't speculate on what a minister would have known. All I can talk about is what I actually experienced, which was the discussion in the room about what the options were and what the pluses and minuses would be of different approaches. I was out of that situation before it rose to political levels.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you very much, Mr. Dechert.
We'll move to Mr. André. Welcome here.
April 28th, 2010 / 4:35 p.m.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Good afternoon.
Like my colleague, I want to talk about The Globe and Mail articles.
On April 25, 2007, The Globe and Mail reported that the government was informed that “Extrajudicial executions, disappearances, torture and detention without trial are all too common” for detainees, and that the government had censored this information in documents released to the media.
Given these reports mentioned by The Globe and Mail, it is obvious you were aware of these allegations. You knew that transferred Afghan detainees were subject to abuse. What did you do? Why did you not act? Did you inform other members of the government of the situation? I feel there was some carelessness. Were you free to act? Were there any pressures or constraints that prevented you from stopping the transfer of detainees to these facilities where they were tortured?
4:40 p.m.
MGen Timothy Grant
If I could just ask for clarification, I think you said it's based on the article of April 2007. Is that the timeframe we're referring to?