Afghanistan Committee on May 5th, 2010

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

You referred in your paper as well to an organization called the Afghanistan Justice Project, with a number of allegations made there, including the fact of an individual who was hung upside down for four days, beaten for two months, and then hidden by the NDS in the detention facility when the human rights groups came to look. Can you tell us a little bit about the Afghanistan Justice Project? We're familiar with the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, but this is a new one to me. Can you tell us a little bit about that and whether you think these kinds of statements are credible?

[Andrea Prasow]

It's a relatively small organization that works on the ground in Afghanistan. The Human Rights Watch researcher who works in Kabul has worked with them and is confident in the quality of their work. I think they have an ability to locate and interview former detainees on the ground that is quite enviable. They have obviously been able to locate people. They've provided me with detailed interview memoranda of their interviews. They were translated. They were originally conducted in the language of the detainee or the relative, in their spoken language, so I'm pretty confident that this information is fairly accurate. I personally cannot attest to the validity of it, but I think it is important to note that all the examples I have detailed in my written remarks and that I've mentioned today are but a few examples of many. I know this committee has heard other examples before, and there are many more available. The U.K. government is discussing them--

[The Chair, Conservative, Kevin Sorenson]

Thank you very much, Ms. Prasow.

We'll move back to Mr. Hawn, please. Again, on the second round I remind everyone it is a five-minute round, not a seven-minute round.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Prasow, for being here, and with respect to that reminder, short answers would be appreciated.

Are you aware of our own rule of law efforts in Afghanistan with respect to improving prisons and the number of Corrections Canada people there, RCMP, CIVPOL, the work we are doing as well with the prison system and the justice system?

[Andrea Prasow]

I am aware that Canada is doing good work there. I don't know the numbers at all.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

You seemed to give the impression it was only the Americans who were doing something, not us, when in fact we are taking strong steps with the Afghans to train them and build their capacity.

[Andrea Prasow]

Absolutely. And as my written remarks make clear, what I am encouraging Canada to do is to increase that work.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I understand. We'd all like to do more.

Have you been to Sarposa yourself?

[Andrea Prasow]

No, I have not.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Have you been to the NDS facility in Kandahar?

[Andrea Prasow]

No, I have not.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Have you been to Kandahar airfield, to the detention facility there?

[Andrea Prasow]

No, I have not.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Have you talked to anybody who operates that facility or has worked with the NDS in that milieu?

[Andrea Prasow]

When I was last in Kabul in March, I met with Christopher Gibbons at the embassy in Kabul and he described to me some of the work that is taking place in Sarposa.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Has Christopher Gibbons worked with those people?

[Andrea Prasow]

Christopher Gibbons is the head of political affairs at the Canadian embassy in Kabul, and I believe he works closely with the DFAIT officials who conduct the monitoring visits.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Are you aware that our visits to Sarposa and other facilities are unannounced under the MOU that we have with the Afghan government?

[Andrea Prasow]

Yes, and I think that is excellent and important.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Would it not be difficult for somebody to hide prisoners from the Canadians, certainly, if our visits are unannounced?

[Andrea Prasow]

I think it's probably not that difficult to hide prisoners, but I do believe--

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Even if you show up and knock at the door and say, “I want to see Joe Blow”?

[Andrea Prasow]

I do believe unannounced visits are important, and my written remarks explain that I believe the full-time presence of monitors is essential.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Are you aware that when Corrections Canada people go there they stay there for 8 to 12 hours, they visit there at least three times a week, and they are unannounced?

[Andrea Prasow]

I think that is wonderful. I think that monitoring continues to be an inadequate source of identifying torture.