Evidence of meeting #8 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
We have provided training to the NDS, to the counter-terrorism capacity building.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Obviously without breaching anything, are they receptive to that training? Have you seen progress with them?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes, and I would like to point out that the training we provided them was not in terms of improving, for example, trade craft. The training we provided was management training and how to manage a security intelligence service in a democracy.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Meaning in a way that would respect human rights and so on.
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Exactly.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
So we have been making efforts to raise the human rights approach of the NDS, by CSIS as well as everybody else?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Yes.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
You work in a lot of tough situations. I don't mean just you personally, but you personally and CSIS. How do you compare Afghanistan with other areas that you may have worked in yourself?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Probably along with Somalia, it's the most dangerous place at this time.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
And the challenge of working in a place like Somalia or Afghanistan, which have had varying periods of complete lawlessness--it's a very tough situation, with very tough people to deal with, and a complete lack of human rights and so on.
We're starting from ground zero. Is it fair to say it will take a while to get them up to a level that would be anything that would be remotely acceptable to what we consider in the west?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
It's obvious, yes, it will.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I'm not asking you for a scale of one to any number, but in your view, have we made considerable progress in those areas since the mission started?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
I will say a few words about our relationship with the National Directorate of Security. I can say that, as an intelligence service, it has made some progress.
5:20 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to pick up on our earlier discussion, Mr. Coulombe. You said that the review committee had two mandates: to examine CSIS's activities and to investigate complaints. You said that when appearing before the committee, you could not tell the chair or the review committee that you could not answer a question because of national security concerns. That is what you said, is it not?
5:20 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
When we appear before the members of SIRC in a forum that is not public, the members have access to all the information we have.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I asked you a second question about the SIRC report submitted to Parliament. You said that it was consistent with the discussions that took place behind the committee doors. Is that not a contradiction? If you say that you cannot answer my questions because of national security concerns, and then I see those questions in the SIRC report, is that not a contradiction? Was the SIRC report censored before it was submitted to Parliament?
5:25 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Mr. Chair, you would have to ask the SIRC members that question. Instead of presenting an exact account of what was said, the public report may simply contain the committee's deliberations or findings. You would still have to ask SIRC, that is not part of our responsibilities.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
To your knowledge, have all the SIRC reports since 2002 included a section on Afghanistan?
5:25 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Frankly, Mr. Chair, I cannot answer that. I would have to look at all the annual reports since 2002. I cannot say whether that was the case every year or every two years. I do not know.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Who appears before SIRC and answers their questions? Is it you or the person who was supposed to come in your place? Who represents CSIS before the review committee?
May 5th, 2010 / 5:25 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
Do you mean when the committee investigates a complaint or when it decides to review one of the service's activities, specifically?
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I mean when the committee does a review. Yes, the committee investigates complaints, and I would imagine that, in those cases, it is the police officer identified in the complaint who appears before the committee. But when the committee reviews one of CSIS's activities, someone has to appear before the committee to represent CSIS. Who is that person?
5:25 p.m.
Assistant Director, Foreign Collection, Canadian Security Intelligence Service
It can be anyone who may have relevant information and who SIRC wants to see.
5:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Very well.
Let us compare CSIS's structure with that of the RCMP for a moment. We know that a commissioner is at the head of the RCMP. Is CSIS headed by a commissioner as well?
