Agriculture Committee on May 11th, 2006

[Jacques Laforge]

I think the main concern here, of a political nature, is that ever since we had a panel decision that we could not export, everything we do in Canada is scrutinized by the international dairy community. Every time we're about to make a decision, we say, what will this do or what will that do?

Our point is that if we don't make a decision, regardless of whether it's the best one or not, we know what it will do to us: supply management will become eroded. It's our wallets. It's structural surplus. It's everything. So the status quo is not the answer.

Whatever we do, we probably will have to take risks. But we have to act. If there are some risk elements, we'll have to evaluate them as we go through, but we have to take action.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Is there any particular section or unit of government that is particularly non-receptive, shall we say--

[A voice]

Oh, oh!

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Well, you can only go so long saying, “We've got the minister on board, no matter what party he is, and he's going to carry the ball for us, but we understand he's going to be undermined by people who don't agree that this is in our best interest”. If someone is at odds, we want to get that resolved before we send our quarterbacks into the fray.

[Richard Doyle]

I'll have the first go at this, and Jacques may want to complete it.

This is the dilemma of this issue because it has four different departments under four different ministers involved. It has agencies involved and so on.

Canada is an exporting country, I don't deny that. And there's a lot of value to exports and so on. In our particular case, we have demonstrated that in agriculture, with a perishable product, the system we have, with some import controls--we're controlling some imports and making it predictable--works. It limits government intervention and limits the financial contribution by taxpayers and so on.

The problem is that we have a bureaucracy that doesn't necessarily deal with agriculture or dairy on a daily basis. When they get into trade and into finance but don't deal with agriculture, they are faced with a situation of, “Oh, what is this? This is totally contrary to the general direction and philosophy that this country has or that we as a department have.” We tried in the past, because we've been at this for so many years, but it's not our job.

I think you asked the right question. The government needs to give a direction and be absolutely relentless in forcing the bureaucracy to come up with answers--not answers without any risk, because they won't be, but in six years the bureaucracy on this issue has submitted no solution to the problem. I think that's part of the issue.

[Jacques Laforge]

To conclude, in a nutshell, this is all about leadership. It's about giving direction to what has to be done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Thank you, Mr. Laforge.

Mr. Miller, for about two minutes. That'll finish the meeting.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

When we had previous witnesses up here we were talking about some of the reasons they want to purchase imported dairy ingredients. One of the reasons--and there are a number--was price.

Do you think the savings on the imports are reflected in the dairy products that end up on the shelves of Canadian consumers?

[Guylaine Gosselin, Director general, Fédération des producteurs de lait du Québec]

We've checked the price of dairy products on grocery shelves. The products are the same, even when imported ingredients are used. Further, products which do not contain imported ingredients often are not more expensive. So it does not make any difference in the consumer price. In fact, this is logical, because our processors, when they sell their products on the market, do not have to face foreign competitors, because import quotas and tariffs prevent cheese from entering the market.

We were asked a little earlier whether it was possible for us to agree on this issue. We would like to, but please understand that those who use cheaper imported ingredients sell their products at the same price as the others. It's a good deal for them. If we stop importing protein, their profits would fall a little. They are taking advantage of the existence of two systems.

[Richard Doyle]

I'd like to make a quick comment on this, because I think it's a very key issue of misunderstanding in terms of the message you're getting in regard to producers and processors.

The processors say it's an issue of pricing, but the finished product they're competing with is in a closed market. We control ice cream imports. We lost 50% of the ice cream market to butter oil imports, a cheaper ingredient.

The market, as you were told this morning, is sliding down. Why? Consumers tell us it's because the quality is bad. Did the price go down to be more competitive? No, the price has gone up in the retail market.

So it's not the price of milk. You were talking about fruit juices and soya beverages. They're both more expensive than milk. So is water. Is that the dilemma of the market, the price of milk? It's not the price of milk. That's a false debate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

I'm afraid that's it, Mr. Miller. You'll have to save your powder for next week.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for coming today. It gives us a lot of food for thought, and it's certainly an issue we'll continue to work on.

Mr. Bellavance, before the meeting is adjourned....

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Chairman, do we have an agenda for future business? The Steering Committee has already set its priorities. I would like to know for how much longer we will study this issue. Further, I believe that the minister is to appear on the 30th. Could the clerk give us an agenda of that meeting, if possible?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

We had tried to itemize the first three meetings, because then there's the break week and it gives us a little bit of chance to re-analyze, and so on.

I think the parliamentary secretary said the minister would appear before the 30th. He didn't specify that date.

He did? He'll appear on the 30th? Okay. So then we'll have to start to work towards a couple of other meetings in between that timeframe--one, actually. As we come back from the May break, the minister will be here, right? So that's Tuesday, May 30.

So then we have a meeting on the WTO, I understand, that we're working on. We'll have to find one more meeting for next week, move down our agenda. We can discuss that on Tuesday, if you'd like, if you want to bring forward a motion as to another issue.

Mr. Bellavance.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I would like to know whether we will have another meeting on the issue of milk proteins.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

We don't have one slated at this point, but you're certainly welcome to put forward a motion, if you care to.

Apparently the clerk has already asked the department for Tuesday on this issue, so he's done a great job--Super Richard.

You're okay with that, then? Great. Thank you.

This meeting stands adjourned.