Evidence of meeting #45 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

William Van Tassel  Vice-President, Ontario-Quebec Grain Farmers’ Coalition
Peter Tuinema  President, Ontario-Quebec Grain Farmers' Coalition
Ross Ravelli  President, Grain Growers of Canada
Barry Reisner  Past-President, Canadian Seed Growers Association
Jim Gowland  Chair, Canadian Soybean Council
Arden Schneckenburger  Second Vice-Chair, Ontario Soybean Growers
Richard Phillips  Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

5:05 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

Our farmers in Saskatchewan...and I'm sure Barry knows what the pressure is like.

We'll talk about the livestock industry in Alberta, where there is money going in and there are certainly more incentives on the provincial side. I think when that's happening, what we're talking about here is having the national program with the dollars being fair to everybody. And if one province wants to put in more money, then as producers I think we also have some responsibility to go and lobby our provincial government to also work harder in Saskatchewan so that we don't see a drain of assets and resources going across to Alberta.

Those are some of the challenges we face in Saskatchewan with the government there.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Okay.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I'm sorry, Mr. Miller, your time is up.

Mr. Hubbard is next.

Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're very near the end, and I'll try to be brief.

As members, we probably continue to be confused. Every Minister of Agriculture makes great announcements, and farmers smile and give out press releases about how well it is going; yet when it gets down to committee, we get nearly every sector coming here to say it's not enough money, we've had a bad year, and we need more money.

Barry's line of questioning dealt with the money and how much money is needed. I know, Mr. Chair, we don't have time today to get an answer, but if each of these sectors could give a report to the clerk about how much money they felt they got as a sector--we'll say in the year 2004-05--and how much they would need in 2008, it might be able to put some value in terms of what.... You know, we have hog producers, we have agriculture in all different levels of success. What concerns me is that when we hear such pessimistic reports, where is your future? Who would want to get into your industry? What are your farms going to be worth if this continues?

Ross, I know you talk about how ethanol is going to be a big factor. I don't necessarily agree that the American farmers are doing all that well in the last decade. There's been a lot of trouble at the farm level in the States as well.

If you were a fisherman, fishermen wouldn't come to us complaining about too many fish, too few fish, or fish not being worth enough. Fishermen come to parliamentary committees talking about infrastructure they need in order to make their fishery work. Farmers don't tend to do that, but I know someone has alluded here to railways. You've alluded to highways; you've probably alluded to storage facilities and all these other things that the government could have in terms of infrastructure. But to put it right back at the farm level creates problems for us in terms of the WTO.

Probably all of you want to answer, but I promised my colleague here at least a minute. Maybe you could give a very quick reply. Where are we going to go? Why are we smiling as if it were a month ago, on March 6--less than a month ago--when the announcement was made of so much money? Is the money really there?

People talk about old money, new money, money that might have been spent sometime before, but is it getting to you? Could you give us a report in terms of your sector? How many acres do you do? Would you want $25 an acre? Do you want 50¢ a bushel? What would governments have to do in order to meet the requirements for you to be a successful farming activity?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We have three minutes.

Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB

We have three minutes now? I need a minute here for--

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We'll do very quick responses, please, and then we'll let Mr. Boshcoff finish the five-minute round.

Go ahead, Mr. Van Tassel.

5:10 p.m.

Vice-President, Ontario-Quebec Grain Farmers’ Coalition

William Van Tassel

What you see now in Canada is that the farm debt is at the level of the farm crisis in the beginning of the eighties in the United States, so we're having a real crisis.

The money sent out is not targeted. What we're pushing for is having something to target better, because probably billions are going to go out. I had money from the $755 million announced last year. Yes, a certain amount came from my farm, but did it alleviate the problem? My price went down because of the subsidies in the United States. It helped, but it really did not address it 100%. It helped us some. Yes, we got money from the programs, but not the amount where the hurt was.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Is there anybody else?

Mr. Phillips, go ahead.

5:10 p.m.

Executive Director, Grain Growers of Canada

Richard Phillips

When you ask how much money is needed, one of the problems for a lot of people in western Canada with the CAIS program is we actually can't predict clearly what the program covers, so it's really hard to know with any clarity what we would need when in many ways we don't know how it really works. That's one of the big challenges, I think, for us out there, in terms of identifying a dollar figure. I think what we'd like to see is programs that work more clearly, that are predictable and bankable. Then when we come back to you to say there's not enough money, we could tell you why and show you the hard numbers.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Go ahead, Mr. Reisner.

5:10 p.m.

Past-President, Canadian Seed Growers Association

Barry Reisner

Mr. Hubbard, I want to respond to something you said initially about the U.S. not being in such a good position in the farm sector. I question that. If you said U.S. farmers themselves, that could be true if they're tenants. If that's true, they've done it to themselves. U.S. landowners, I suspect, are doing quite a lot better, because the profitability is capitalized into the land, so I don't think it's quite right to say they're not prospering because of their government's policies.

But I don't want to see us distorting markets. I don't think we should be picking winners and losers. Ross said that before, and I agree. We have to allow the marketplace to sort itself out, but infrastructure--particularly transportation--in this country is a huge problem, and maybe that's something we should be focusing more on. We haven't done much about it in the last ten years.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Boshcoff, please.

Ken Boshcoff Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON

Thank you very kindly, Mr. Chair.

Is the localized, sporadic, unpredictable nature of disaster the reason why the 13 or 14 governments we have in this country haven't been able to come together on how to respond to a disaster? Is it always going to be on an ad hoc basis?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Reisner.

5:15 p.m.

Past-President, Canadian Seed Growers Association

Barry Reisner

I sure hope it doesn't always go that way, because that makes it into a political process. For the people involved, that's totally unfair. I meant to address that in my comments. We should have some type of disaster program in place that is in some way bankable or at least predictable for disasters. We have disasters across this country in agriculture almost every year in localized areas. That's really something that's missing as well, and it shouldn't be a political process.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I'd like to follow up on that, because we didn't really talk about disaster assistance today at all. We've talked about decoupling disaster assistance from the whole farm safety net. We've talked about making sure it's there for specific issues, whether it's trade action or national disaster. Do you have any ideas on how you'd like to see that brought about--if you can do that in less than a minute?

Mr. Gowland.

5:15 p.m.

Chair, Canadian Soybean Council

Jim Gowland

We have a program in place right now--the CAIS program. At that bottom end when the wheels absolutely fall off everything, it's one of those things that helps you through, I guess.

On the systemic erosion of price, you just don't fall into that category. It just keeps eroding. I think it's that upper level. Steps have been taken, of course, with the reintroduction of NISA at the top end, and those other types of things that are commodity-specific in nature. I think those programs would alleviate some of that. Keep CAIS as the bottom end when the wheels fall off.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

The problem with CAIS has always been that it's not very timely. We've already heard that you wait a year, or year and a half in some cases, before you see any money. In a disaster you need some money flowing tomorrow.

With that, I want to thank all of you for your interventions and presentations today. I very much appreciate them.

We're adjourned.