Agriculture Committee on April 16th, 2007

[Greg Norton]

Employment insurance has changed. They're a lot more rigorous, I think, with their follow-ups and things in the last few years, which is a really good thing. That's a relatively new issue for us. Historically, we haven't had a lot of pressure from EI on our full-time workers. But we have just started in the last season or two. We have started to notice, as we have gotten together and talked about this, that each one of us has had an experience, so that's why we brought it to this level today.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thank you.

The other question I have is about your workers. When I first visited your farm, you were very proud to tell me that you were employing Canadians, and you showed me where they worked and how they worked and the skills they had. Are you still able to attract these young people? Are they going to come back this year? What are you doing that is encouraging these people, young Québecois and Canadians, to work there, that other people may not be doing when they have to rely on foreign workers? So that's the immediate question.

[Greg Norton]

My wife and I both used to work summer jobs as orchard workers, and we're passionate. We made that our life experience, our life choice of how to make a living. We're very passionate about what we do, and young people tend to be attracted to some sort of passion and enthusiasm. The Quebec kids particularly become our family; they're not just workers. They work really hard for us, and we're with them. I'm up at 4 o'clock every morning. I'm up before they are, and I go to bed after they do. They recognize that. We become this big happy family, and it's a good, happy feeling. Most growers don't take time, to be honest, because a lot of them are, quite frankly, preoccupied with other aspects of the business, and they maybe weren't cherry pickers when they were younger. They've joined the agriculture industry late in life or whatever.

But we've been full. We've had our crew since about the second week of February, because we do get the e-mails and the letters and the calls. We're fine as a farm for ourselves. However, our crew is now getting older, and we're concerned. We're not seeing the renewal. We're not seeing the 18-year-olds as we used to. The average age is now about 27 in our picking crew, which is a bit scarily high because it's hard work and they tend to, as my wife says, go get a life, get a real job. But these folks have locked into this, and they are working that lifestyle at this moment.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Is that because of the opportunity in Alberta? Or is it just a different mindset that younger people have now?

[Greg Norton]

It's a combination, I think. You know, to be 18 now and go out in the job market, you've got a lot of choices, and a lot of good choices, to get a high-paying job in any field you want. Plus, I think the younger people are younger. My 27-year-olds say, “Gee, those 18-year-olds--they don't know anything.” So I think there has been a change. I think young people are different.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Atamanenko.

Thank you, Mr. Norton.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't know if everyone knows this, but John used to be a minister in a province for a number of years.

So welcome, John. I know you worked. I might have given you hell a few times when you were a minister, because I was a farm leader, but welcome. It's good to see you here, still interested in the industry.

The first question is to you, Lorne, really. I want to be absolutely clear on what you're saying. Maybe the supply management groups could provide us with the wording, because for whatever reason, Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada seem to have an affinity for using the words “supply management” in any documentation they publish. It's the most successful of programs, one of the most successful programs anywhere around the world.

You're saying unequivocally that under the business risk management pillar, the terms “producer pricing”, “import controls”, and “production discipline” need to be included. Have I got that correct?

[Lorne Hunter]

Correct.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Okay.

The country of origin and U.S. dumping, which it ties into as well, are the two major problems. For the country of origin, I don't think it's the job of the organizations to do this. The guy that can document where products are coming from is the member for this particular riding, Stockwell Day. He's in charge of the Canada Border Services Agency, and all he needs to do is put together a directive. They know everything that comes across that border, so maybe we should tell him to do so, and that would give us an indication.

On the country of origin side, which deals with the whole issue of value-added, you mentioned the apples, and there are all kinds of other cases.

On the dumping side, the problem there, Greg, is that the trade remedy laws are so slow. John, you've had experience previously with potatoes and other crops, and I know Greg has as well. How do we speed up the trade remedy laws so that they kick in by the time...? In your case, it's a three-week period, and it's all over. One day's dumping into the market will kill the price for the next month.

Do you have any suggestions in that area? Any of you can go ahead.

[Greg Norton]

As a Canadian, I understand how hard it is. First of all, you have to get a wholesaler in Toronto who is willing to report a guy who is trying to give him cherries to sell in favour of mine, when I'm trying to make money selling the cherries. That's an issue right off the bat.

I really think there could be some penalty for people who are actually doing this. Canadians are buying these cherries. Americans aren't buying the cherries, and Canadians are bringing them in. Perhaps if we looked at that and said that if you're a wholesaler and you're selling to Loblaws throughout Ontario, and you are proven to be buying this fruit under production levels, or buying dumped American fruit in favour of Canadian-produced fruit, there's going to be a penalty. I haven't heard that thought expressed publicly, at least not by government, at any point in time.

Historically, how we've dealt with it hasn't been working, so maybe we do need some new thinking and some new ideas.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

The minute a truckload of pork goes into North Dakota, and it arrives by somebody's gate, the Americans are on our ass, just like that.

[Greg Norton]

You bet.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

We always seem to be the Boy Scouts, and that's not being political. It doesn't matter if it was our government or this one, we always, for 10 decades, have been Boy Scouts in this trade issue.

When you tell me that cherries are coming in here on consignment--

[Greg Norton]

It's bizarre, isn't it?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

--and take what you can get, that's unbelievable.

[Greg Norton]

It is unbelievable. Just try to compete against it.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

John, do you have any suggestions? What do we have to do here?

[John Savage]

Mr. Chairman, to Wayne, you raised a very good issue. How is it, according to the statement you just made, that the U.S. can virtually instantly respond? It's not just pork; it's anything that they might see as an action that hurts their agriculture, a product coming from virtually anywhere, specifically Canada. You know what BSE and so on did to us.

In the case of what you and Greg are specifically talking about, when it comes to cherries, why is there not an immediate fast-track action? Why can't that be sought after? It's being done south of us, and we need to do the same thing here. If we want our industry to survive, after the fact is of no value to us.

Greg is dead right, and you said it, Wayne: once the product gets here, it's too late. The problem is making sure we understand what that product will land at, and then you will know instantly that a trade action is necessary here. It has to be absolutely as quickly as possible, but there should be advance warning by somebody who monitors it. Is it just a wholesaler that is bringing it in? What does Canada Customs do? How do we know we can get this information as quickly as possible?

There has to be a tracking method, and I'm suggesting that we get on that as quickly as we can.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

On this whole issue of research and basically not having access anymore, that's not common just to your research station in Penticton, it's common to the whole structure of Agriculture Canada now. They went to this silo-type system. Our potato researcher, for instance, is in Charlie's area, in New Brunswick.

What I find is that if you talk to the individuals somewhere within the system, they'll claim they spend half their time driving back and forth to meetings now instead of doing what they ought to be doing, because they're scattered all over God's half acre. So it's not unique to your area.

I don't know how we get back to that older system. It should be an open door policy in which the best research that's done comes through constant communication with the local farmers on their practices. We've gotten away from that somehow, but I don't know how we did.

It's the same in Charlottetown. I have a research station in my area, but you can't talk to anybody anymore.

I don't know if you have anything further to add.

[Greg Norton]

I was suggesting that we get a couple of folks up there who would be considered PR or extension people who could go out and be the catalysts between the researcher and the producer.

The individuals who are locked up in the institution are dying to talk to us. These researchers are wonderful people. They have knowledge and they're quite willing to share it. We work with them. As the cherry growers, we pump about $40,000 a year into research for these individuals. They're great folks, but it's just the system.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

But is part of it that they're tied into the research dollars from the corporate sector in order to get money now?

[Greg Norton]

No, I couldn't characterize it as that at all. We're doing great work, we're just not telling anybody about it. When people like me break through and get into that group of researchers, I have a good time. I can find my people and get my information, but the broad industry—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

What type of support are you getting out of the provincial government, though, Greg?

[Greg Norton]

None.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Essentially, ag extension is the responsibility of the province. The province is supposed to be working alongside Ag Canada researchers, getting that information and disseminating it out to producers. Is that happening or not?