Agriculture Committee on April 25th, 2007

[Hélène Méthot]

For my part, I would say—and I am responsible for R and D projects at CEPOQ—that I spend really a small part of my time doing funding research. I mostly work on the projects, on analysis of the protocols, writing, and everything. So for my part, it's not that huge, because we cannot afford to have me spend that much time on funding research.

Besides that, because we have a small team we have a limited capacity to conduct many projects simultaneously, so there's no point in our going out trying to get 25 projects at the same time.

The need is there to do all those projects, but the resources aren't.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

So the bottom line is that really there should be strong federal government input into research at the primary production level, in terms of both the research station capacity for discovery research and in terms of the genetic project that you're just seeing cancelled. You have said it's internationally known, that it's opening up markets, etc.

So this is certainly an area for the federal—and we're hearing a lot of that. We're hearing “research and development” everywhere we go, and that it should be public research at the primary production level.

The last question goes to Mr. Proulx. You said all imported food products should respect the same norms our producers respect. I think you gave the example of pork. Do you have others? This is something we've heard in every province we've been in as well, that Canadians are regulated under certain food and safety standards, yet products from other countries that are produced differently are allowed in. Do you want to speak on that a little bit?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Proulx.

[Charles Proulx]

We could give you a lot of examples. You need only think of dairy production, of all the non-dairy products that can be imported. There's also the market garden production of cucumbers and pickles; call it what you will. Some Quebec producers are able to produce them, in a high-quality environment that we defend and that is imposed, but we import pickles from Asian countries, India and China, which have completely different environmental criteria from our own.

Allow me to go back to the subject of research. In the 1960s and 1970s, there was a federal farm at La Pocatière. That farm conducted research, trials. That enabled farmers to go and see how that research was applied. It made it possible to transfer the results of the research that was done directly to agricultural producers. Today we no longer have that capability.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Desjardins.

[Louis Desjardins]

Chemicals are used in the United States, products that the government here does not want to approve because the need is perhaps not as great. It costs money to have them approved in Canada. They spray fruits and vegetables with all kinds of products that we are not allowed to use here. Some would help us control weeds in leek crops. Those vegetables are sent to us from the United States, and we eat them. Just think of somatotropin in milk. Americans are allowed to give that substance to their cows so that they produce more milk, but it's prohibited in Canada. There are any number of other examples of that kind.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Devolin, please go ahead.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions.

First, to Mr. Desjardins, I was the first one to get my $5 out of that bag. I don't know how you say “dibs” in French, but I have dibs on that one.

[Louis Desjardins]

But—

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Ms. Méthot, I have a couple of points. The first is on research, as we were talking about research. It's my understanding that there is money available for research now. Are you aware of that? Are you pursuing any new research initiatives in sheep development?

[Hélène Méthot]

Yes, we are, but as your colleague Mr. Easter mentioned, when you take time to get that money, with all the administration that needs to be done around that, it uses energy that cannot be put on research itself .

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

As a separate question, our primary focus on this tour is to talk about business risk management. I have sheep producers in my riding in central Ontario as well and one of the problems they've had recently was with the BSE crisis. Sheep farmers who were growing breeding stock to export out of Canada were side-swiped and caught in the BSE trap. Has this been a problem for your members? Has the CAIS program, for example, been there to help offset some of the damage that was done by BSE to sheep farmers?

[Hélène Méthot]

This is not my specific field of expertise, but if my memory doesn't trick me, I believe that sheep producers were forgotten in the first edition of the financial help program for the BSE crisis. It was really hard for them to get through that, while their market was closed as for all the other producers.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Dancause, go ahead, please.

[Hervé Dancause]

In Quebec, producers often have two or three types of production, milk or other types. The CAIS program covers all total farm income, and the milk portion cancels out the income derived from sheep breeding, grain crops and so on. That's a problem in Quebec.

Two or three types of production support one or two families. If we only operated a sheep farm, the program would be efficient, but it doesn't work in the case of producers who have two or three types of production.

[Barry Devolin, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

It has been pointed out before that one of the best ways to manage risk is to have some diversification. When a program like CAIS effectively favours people who have only a single product and discriminates against people who have multiple lines of business, we're not sending the right message. We're not being consistent. We're asking farmers to be responsible and to manage their risk, but then creating a program that gives them the incentive to not manage it.

My last question is to Mr. Proulx. You were talking about “buy local”—buying local food, eating local food, and trying to encourage consumers with a consumer awareness program to buy more local food. I also think this is a way to manage risk by making a more direct connection between a producer and their consumer and not be selling into an international market all the time, where the price is entirely out of your control.

Do you think for farmers in this region that it is a good risk management strategy, to try to make a better connection with their end-consumer as opposed to producing commodities that are sold at international market prices?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Proulx, and then Mr. Desjardins.

[Charles Proulx]

In general, producers are left to their own devices, in a way. Earlier we talked about the fact that there were a number of types of production. I have four, including asparagus and potatoes that are certified organic. The problem is marketing. The market is in Montreal and Toronto, six, seven, eight or 10 hours from home. My son won't go and deliver our production in Montreal. Marketing is a problem for us.

Yes, it's a good way of doing things. However, when my wife goes to the grocery store and buys cucumbers, it's written on the jar that it's a Canadian product. However, those cucumbers have been imported in bulk and put in jars in Montreal, Toronto or Mississauga. Vinegar is added, and it becomes a Canadian product. It's a bit confusing. The cucumbers come from outside Canada, but since they're put in jars here, they become a product of Canada. Labelling concerning product origin will be increasingly important, whether it be for sheep, pork or any other product.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Desjardins.

[Louis Desjardins]

With regard to the CAIS program, grain prices are too low. We can't get by. The average of the bad years is still bad.

As for the bags, they were designed by our director. They include prospectuses promoting our products. The first condition that we set was that products had to be made here. We didn't want products from Japan or elsewhere. So the products are made in L'Islet. I'm going to circulate this bag, which is special. No one should feel left out because there's enough for everyone.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Merci.

Mr. Steckle.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

We have very limited time and this is a very interesting dialogue we're having here this morning, but really the purpose of this committee is to listen to you people in trying to help us stand better as we move forward in the new era of a new APF.

Very quickly—we need to have really quick responses, if we can—what pillar of the APF do you see as probably in most need of change as we move forward? We know that supply management has been asked for as one of the pillars. Where do you see us improving? I know that the programming in Quebec is somewhat different from the other provinces, but just tell us quickly, where would you see the need for change to take place?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Desjardins.

[Louis Desjardins]

Income security was already guaranteed through income stabilization. That program was developed by and for producers, and it worked quite well. The money was well spent. I understand why the federal government decided to create its own program, but we had a lot of trouble, certain problems.

If the CAIS money intended for Quebec had been injected into Quebec, our income security program would have continued to operate. However, you have to find a way of doings things. You also have to have a program in the event of a disaster. The federal government is in the best position to provide this kind of program across Canada. We've already made use of it, in the flood in Lac-Saint-Jean, and in the west, when—

I've never been the victim of fire, but I'm ready to pay every year to insure myself against it. It's somewhat the same thing for disasters. Mr. Proulx said that Quebec farms were mixed. They were developed in that way in order to diversify production. When one type of production is supply-managed, that means there's a level field. The other guy is doing that next door, but that cancels everything out.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Does anyone else wish to comment? Very quickly, because I have one more question.