Agriculture Committee on March 4th, 2008

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

In this type of program, is the agreement between the province and the federal government signed ahead of time so we know the formula when the disaster hits? Because in the past, as I said, there has been this kind of back-and-forth. I'm thinking of the case in Saskatchewan between the Saskatchewan government and the federal government in regard to Porcupine Plain, when people were waiting, and they weren't sure. Each government was waiting for the other one to take the lead.

Has that been worked out so that the agreement is there, a disaster happens, and help is on the way?

[Nada Semaan]

That's exactly how it was streamlined.

What we actually did was that we took the lessons of the last 20 or 30 years from disaster relief and created a process whereby as soon as anybody—including a producer organization—says they're in trouble, that something has happened, the governments then work together and with interested stakeholders. We cannot have a one-size-fits-all approach, because every disaster is different, but we have a documented process by which we will do the assessment.

In addition, in the federal government we have already gone to cabinet to receive authorities to actually be able to spend these funds, so that we're not going through the cabinet process. In addition, recently we did get Treasury Board approval to be able to react very quickly to smaller disasters just through an order in council.

This now allows us the flexibility to react extremely fast. For example, we are currently working with Alberta on the nematode in their potato seeds. Now that their government has been elected, we will actually be working with them on March 10, and we are hoping to have something that we could recommend by the end of March. That's how fast we can do it. As you know, in the previous years it took months and months because of the time it would require.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Merci. Your time has expired.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Steckle.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To our witnesses here this morning, I have a number of questions. I'll give them, and then I'll expect responses.

The farm families options program was a pilot project, and we understood that it was cancelled before its completion; that was our understanding. I think we're getting some different take on it this morning. People have received a partial payment. I understand it's 50% for the year 2006. What amount might they be able to expect in terms of the full amount they would normally get? How much more can they expect to get?

Second, there was a huge amount of money allocated in that program—I believe it was $170 million, if I recall correctly, against a $550 million program—for accountants to do the work. Can you tell us how much money was expended for the servicing of the accountants who actually processed these files?

Can you give us an indication about what kinds of people and crops were affected by smaller natural disasters? How did smaller natural disasters affect the kinds of applicants? Can you give us some indication on that?

Can you also tell us your estimate of the average uptake by those people requesting funding under the AgriInvest kickstart program? Since those have gone out, you have told them, or given them, I understand, the numbers they can expect in terms of a payment. Did I hear you correctly that you have been able to tell farmers, based on the information you have, what payment they might expect? Then it would be up to them either to accept or reject it and leave it in a fund for some other future time. Can you tell us what would be the average uptake so far? You must be able to adjust that to the amount of money that you have, knowing that you have enough—or maybe not enough—to cover that. Can you give us some idea as to where that stands right now?

[Nada Semaan]

There were a number of questions. I hope I get them all.

On the options, it was always a two-year pilot. The second year, however, was limited. The scope was changed in the second year to limit it to participants who participated in the first year of the pilot, rather than just allow any producers to apply for the second year. So there was a change in scope in the second year; however, it was always intended to be just a two-year pilot, so that we could do an assessment. There was always a requirement that we actually take a look at it and do an evaluation.

The other part of the question, in terms of how much we think they can expect, we just—

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

No, there's the other question on how much money was expended or doled out to the accountants who actually did the fee work. Different accountants have told me how me how much money they got, and if I recall correctly, there was $170 million in the program to be paid to accountants, because the accountants' fees ranged from $3,000 to $3,500.

[Nada Semaan]

I can't respond on the accountants' fees. I do know that the program has two elements: one is a direct payment to producers, and the other one is for them to take renewal-type programs, and they can take—

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

It's the family farm options program.

[Nada Semaan]

Yes. The options program has two components. The first component is a direct payment to the individuals, the farm family. With the second one, in order for them to get that payment they must agree to enrol in a renewal-type program, whether it be CASS, whether it be PAVE, one of those. That was what that money was for.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I understand that, but I'm just wondering how much money was expended to help these farmers get the money in the first place.

There were accountants' fees. I know accountants who got $90,000. I think somebody needs to know, because this was a highly costly program in terms of what the farmers' returns were.

[Nada Semaan]

As I mentioned, the programs that this program funds are direct payments that we actually provide to producers.

The other one is renewal programs. They are specific renewal programs that go to a number of different areas. Some of them are administered by provinces; some of them--

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Let's not waste time with that. I want an answer to my third question, on the AgriInvest Kickstart program. What would be the average uptake on that?

[Nada Semaan]

The average uptake right now in the Kickstart program.... The money is out. If we were to take a look at the cost of production, which is based on the--

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

What would be the average farmer's take-home pay?

[Nada Semaan]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were asking who was going to apply for it.

I believe the average payment on Kickstart was about $2,000 to $2,200.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Do you expect that will help farmers out of the difficulty they're in?

[Nada Semaan]

That is the average. It goes up to $45,000 for the large farms, in terms of--

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That would be the upper end?

[Nada Semaan]

Yes. It goes as high as $45,000.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Mr. Storseth, the floor is yours.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Sorry, I have to apologize right off the bat. I was up a little late last night watching the tremendous election results in the province of Alberta, as I'm sure everybody here was happy to see. It was 73 out of 83 seats, Paul. That's amazing.

Anyway, back to the questions at hand, I first want to touch base on a couple of the questions my colleagues were talking about.

Don't get too confused. We get this often here, where one member doesn't like the family farm options program, and one does. One thing I heard from the people in my riding is that they absolutely did not like this program. Thank you very much for taking part in cancelling the program when you did.

Exactly how much money went out to AgriInvest? Then I would like to know if you could break that down into how much went to Alberta.

[Nada Semaan]

I don't have the numbers per se on me, so we will submit them to you in terms of the provincial breakdown, if that's okay. We can provide all the provincial breakdowns in addition to the full amount.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Absolutely, if you don't mind. I'm interested in Alberta, but I'm sure my colleagues around the table would be interested in the breakdown for all the provinces.

I've received tremendous feedback on this AgriInvest. I know when I did farm consultations throughout my riding in 2006 it was something that many of them wanted, many of them called for. It's something they were very happy with when I did them here in the winter of 2007.

One of the things that I would like to ask you--and I don't know if you have the answer to this either--is how you came about the interest rate you pay for those who continue to stay within the program.