Agriculture Committee on Dec. 5th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I just can't emphasize the immediacy of this crisis enough. Every day that goes by we're losing producers. I know where organizations come from on this issue, and they do look at the trade issue. But every day that goes by we're losing producers. I've heard what you've said in terms of interim payments and so on. When I talk to people, they don't mention having received any money. Producers out there are saying that they haven't gotten any money. I've heard of some that have gotten $700 on a $50,000 loss. It doesn't go very far.

Do you have available with you, or can you get for us, how much actual cash has hit the ground? I hear us talking about the $600 million that's been announced three times that nobody has seen yet but that we may see next year. I heard what you said on the interim payments. But can you tell us how much actual cash went out there and was put in farmers' pockets from January until September 30? Is money really getting out there? I'm not hearing about it, Danny.

[Danny Foster]

We can tell you the amount of cash that's been paid out since January 1. In fact, I think you've recently been provided with what we call the one-pagers. They give a summary of all the program payments. In there you'll find the 2006 CAIS payments that have been paid to date. This is for all producers. We don't like to get commodity-specific for trade reasons, but I think you'll see, for 2006, that it's about $500-plus million. We're forecasting for 2006 well over $1 billion. It will probably be closer to $1.4 billion at the end of the day. We're in the midst of processing 2006 applications, because producers tend to wait to the deadline to file their applications.

On the $400 million cost-of-production program announced in May, $325 million is out the door for that initiative, as well. Again, I think that's in the one-pager. So if you go through the one-pager, it will tell you what the program specifics are. But we can provide you with what each of those programs has paid since January 1.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I went through them, and they aren't quite specific enough. So anything additional you can provide would be great.

I think it should be mentioned, Mr. Chair, that the cost-of-production program is misnamed. It has nothing to do with the cost of production. I don't know why you would call a program the cost of production. The consuming public out there actually thinks that farmers are getting their cost of production, when that program has no relationship to the cost of production at all. It's the kind of spin this crew likes to put on programs, but it's reality.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Easter, thank you.

We'll go to Madame Thi Lac.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I will be brief.

When you try to centralize too much, you end up hurting the very people you want to help. The programs you are designing today apply coast to coast. But it's a fact that the reality of farmers out west is not necessarily the same as that of farmers in the Maritimes or in Quebec.

Our political party has recognized the principle of nationhood for a long time. Now the Conservatives have also recognized that Quebec is a nation, and so it is also time that the distinctiveness of Quebec's farming sector be recognized by tailoring programs to the needs of Quebec farmers.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Go ahead, Mr. Marsland.

[Andrew Marsland]

Thank you.

Let me say that as we move forward in developing the Growing Forward framework for non-business-risk management, one of the things we want to achieve is greater flexibility region by region to meet specific needs. So if you're trying to address with producers a specific environmental issue, whether it be the watershed issue in Lake Winnipeg or a specific issue in Quebec, you can design programs that address that. That's a key part of how we design the programs. We want to be able to do that so there's flexibility from producer to producer and also from region to region. We're very much working with the provinces to allow that to happen.

In the business risk management area, we try to develop national programs that are agreed to by all federal and provincial ministers. We fund those on a 60-40 basis. There are other programs that are funded solely by provinces that are within their ambit to put in place.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We've been talking a lot about BRM, and the crisis in the livestock industry is no doubt why the questioning today has gone that way. As a producer, I know that my future and the future for my kids on the farm is going to be what we do in science and technology, what we do in market development.

Andrew, in your opening comments you did touch on those areas, looking at our competitive position, especially the cost of our regulatory environment versus those of other countries around the world. I was wondering if you would be able, with the help of Dr. Fortin and Madam Mountjoy, to talk a little bit more about what we're doing to enhance the long-term viability of the industry in research, development, new innovation, new technology, and new markets.

[Andrew Marsland]

Perhaps Dr. Fortin could begin by talking about what we're doing in terms of innovation with the provinces and with the sector.

[Dr. Marc Fortin]

Yes. During the Growing Forward consultations, the message was clear that science and innovation are components of the long-term success of the industry. We have heard that comment pretty much coast to coast. We are intent on putting more emphasis on science and innovation under Growing Forward, more resources. Growing Forward is a federal-provincial negotiation. We have presented our thoughts and meditations to the provinces and we're in the process of discussing what instruments will be rolled out come next year, when Growing Forward is implemented.

We have made significant investments in the past in science and innovation. There's a sense—and I'm not referring only to the agricultural sector in Canada, but across disciplines and sectors in Canada—that Canada is performing well in investing in knowledge discovery. Perhaps Canada is not performing quite as well in transforming that knowledge into new products for new markets.

We are in the process of developing, in consultation with the sector, a new suite of instruments to transform that knowledge into products and services that will enhance sector competitiveness. We haven't finished our discussions with the provinces, so we will have to await further discussions in the coming weeks and months. I think the emphasis will be more on transforming the knowledge into products and services, rather than on more investments in knowledge discovery.

[Andrew Marsland]

I think I can add that another area we need to focus on is the whole area of regulation, making sure we have the right balance, that producers have access to the technologies they need to be competitive. Things such as health claims are available. I heard earlier in the year someone from the almond board in the U.S. saying they had a health claim approved by the FDA for almonds, and that they'd seen in a very short period of time their sales double and the prices double, which is nirvana. It's not going to happen in every circumstance, but it's an illustration of the power of some of these tools, if you can get the regulatory framework right.

I think we also need to be very aggressive in terms of looking at our international market development areas. Perhaps Krista would like to mention that.

[Krista Mountjoy]

Absolutely.

It strikes me that my job in a sense almost picks up where Marc's leaves off. As he's working with the industry with the sectors to help produce these wonderful innovative products, my job, then, is to work with the sector to turn innovation into profitability, if you will, particularly when you look at the fact that we're an exporting nation for agricultural products, agrifoods. I think the figure 42% was mentioned. If you concentrate on the non-supply-managed sector, that rises to above 50%. That's significant. Canadian products are valued tremendously around the world for their quality, their reputation.

I think there's a great opportunity that lies before us through Growing Forward to better define that relationship between industry and the department and others--the CFIA, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade--as to how we leverage those opportunities that lie before us.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Wayne just passed me a note here, and it's a good point. I'm talking about market development and innovation and new technologies and research. Of course I'm talking about helping our farmers out, versus selling that technology to other farmers around the world in market-development activities. So it's about helping our domestic industry.

You guys have some homework that was asked of you. One was in regard to the AgriStability agreements. If you can provide that to the committee, I'd really appreciate it, so we can have a look at it, see how they are bankable and what the banks are looking at.

[Danny Foster]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The other one was when we were talking about the $4.3 billion under AMS spending. If we could have a summary of that information provided to the committee, I think that would prove to be very worthwhile information. We always talk about that, we have $4.3 billion, and half the time we forget that supply management fits under there as an amber spending because we only look at what the government dollars are as cash outflow, when Danny does such a good job of providing us with all the updates on all the money that has been spent by the government over the last eight years or so.

For the committee's purpose and to let everyone know, we have a notice of motion from Mr. Miller that was circulated. We will deal with that at Monday's meeting.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

When the minister comes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We're still trying to line up the minister for December 12. That's what we're really fighting for.

Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, just a suggestion, because the motion I think is pretty straightforward. To save time on Monday, if any member has any problem with the wording—I suspect after our meeting back in the spring it will probably be unanimous—or if there are any words missing, talk to me before then, and as long as it doesn't change the intent of the motion, I think—

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

There are words missing, Larry.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Of course, with you around, Wayne.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

He used to be an old blacksmith, so wordsmithing is no problem.

I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Yes, Mr. Atamanenko.

The meeting is adjourned.