Evidence of meeting #15 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was local.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
I apologize that I had to step out for a few minutes.
You just made a statement that basically implied to me that the Competition Bureau isn't doing its job under the powers that it has. Do you believe they have the power under the current mandate or legislation to deal with what you're proposing?
12:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
They have the power to deal with a lot of things; they choose not to. They said that in front of this committee as well, that they are only interested in low prices to the consumer, essentially. But if you look at the preamble to the act or if you look at their website, it doesn't say that. I'm sure they'll have all kinds of reasons why I'm wrong, but I can read English—my French is a little sketchy—and what it says is very clear to me. There's a modicum of protection of small business, which is fundamentally ignored.
I think, Mr. Chair, it would be very good of the government to encourage them to go back to the spirit and intent of the act, which is clear—not only in it, but even in the amendments you just passed. They're there again.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
12:45 p.m.
Vice-President, Government and Industry Relations, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
The Interac thing just came up a couple of weeks ago, to come back to your question. That was basically their view. They didn't say what recommendation they were going to make with respect to the Interac application to the tribunal, but definitely the view from that meeting--and it was shared by others who had similar meetings--was that this is probably going to be good for competition.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Okay. Thank you very much.
Go ahead, Mr. Easter, for five minutes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We don't mind at all, Gary, if you get passionate on that issue. What you said on the record is good to have on the record.
On that issue, have you presented a submission yet on the debit card issue to either the Senate or the industry committee?
12:45 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
Mr. Easter, we have asked for, and received, a slot on May 7 to appear in front of the Senate banking committee, and we've asked for, and received, a slot for the industry committee.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Can you forward a copy of that presentation to this committee as well? I think it would be useful.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
We can incorporate it into the record. Maybe if a second or a third committee came up with similar recommendations, it might be helpful. It is a critical issue.
My own view is that the Competition Bureau pretty nearly always ends up giving the big and the powerful more power and more control, to their advantage. That's just the way it's been. We've got to make changes there.
Earlier, the exceptions to the.... What would you call it, the 5%?
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
It's the fidelity agreement.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes, exceptions to the fidelity agreement are one way to go. Where would be the best place to look for information on that? Would it be the Quebec model?
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
Yes, I think it would be the Quebec model, although--and you might check this--when Loblaws got religion last year and started to really promote buying locally, they allowed relaxation of fidelity for buying local product. It would be interesting to see what they did and how they did it.
That was an interesting one, because you remember that the commercials promoted buying locally. They've been great. They'd do their private label in Canada, but Longo's in Canada came out and said that they'd been buying locally for 50 years and would continue to.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes.
Now, with reference to buying local product, does trade spend have an impact on that in terms of shelf space?
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
No, sir, not with the independents. No, sir.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
It does not with the independents, but it does in terms of the majors. Okay.
The other point that was made, which is an area I think we can move in as a committee, related to the food terminals. There's no question that we are a big country. I think that intrigues a lot of us on this committee.
You have experience right across the country in terms of the best locations for food terminals, and we are five regions. I don't know how many we need to be looking at, but based on your experience, if you had the magic wand, where would the best location be?
Just as I think Bev Shipley said earlier, I wouldn't see money coming out of it for CAIS or some of our farm programs, but maybe it could be in terms of some of the federal-provincial agreements. There are major moves on infrastructure spending. Now, when the country needs stimulus, is the time to do some big things. Maybe there's a proposal, and discussions on food and changing the system are popular right now. The public's listening. They're listening on food safety, food security, and food sovereignty.
In your mind, where would the best place be, and how many would be needed? We're not going to hold you to it, but what would be your suggestion on needs for food terminals, and in what geographic regions would they be?
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
You need a critical mass. I would suggest you've got two, Montreal and Vancouver, that are obvious. You may have a possibility in Calgary, which would serve Saskatchewan and Alberta, but Vancouver and Montreal are ones that would support.
I'm going to make an offer, Mr. Chair. If this committee, or a group from this committee, would like to come to Toronto and get up at 3:30 a.m., I will arrange for you to come down and see how the terminal operates. It might be worth your while. I know you don't like the idea, but you go on various junkets, and it's not a bad idea to see how this terminal actually operates. It's pretty good stuff.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
I'm a former dairy farmer; it's no problem. But for some of our folks here who are from Toronto, that's a different question.
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
I'd be happy to arrange that, Mr. Chair.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
That's a good offer. A number of us might be interested.
Thanks, John.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Just to that, I'll suggest to the committee that if that is an interest of the committee at some point.... We all have to travel. Not all of us have to go through Toronto, but if you do that on a Monday, it might be something on our way here that you could make work. I just throw that out.
12:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
Mr. Chair, it's a different world, let me tell you. When you go out through those gates, it's a different world. It's worth seeing.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Just driving into Toronto is a different world. You can tell I was raised out on a country road.
We're out of time.
Mr. Scott and Mr. Sands, thank you very much for coming again at our request. It's always very interesting. This is something that obviously we've had an interest in for a while. I'm glad to see we're going ahead.
I have one last request of you. Would you submit, in the next coming weeks, your suggestions on individual situations or issues in terms of how you think the Competition Bureau could improve the way they deal...how, and that kind of thing? I think that would be good. It's something we could review as we continue through this.
12:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers
I'd be happy to do that, sir.