Yes.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you very much.
We're getting down in time. I'm going to have a question here from Mr. Valeriote and then one from this side.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Time is so restricted, ladies and gentlemen, especially for the effort that you've put forward to get up here.
Following on Mr. Storseth's question on this issue of the contribution agreement, do you have to go through the same onerous agreement with the province, or is it just with the federal government?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Agricultural Adaptation Council
We do have to do this for the province for the Growing Forward framework also.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Did it change in the last year and a half, since 2008, as this contribution agreement changed with the federal government? Was it a less onerous process before?
4:05 p.m.
Executive Director, Agricultural Adaptation Council
I would say no, there's definitely a more complex agreement now in place.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
In that 110-page document, are you prepared to identify the sections you feel are reasonable and appropriate, as well as those sections that you think are overly aggressive and unnecessary, so that this committee can learn specifically what you're asking and make a proposal to the minister?
4:05 p.m.
Chairman, Agricultural Adaptation Council
We can certainly attempt to do that.
4:05 p.m.
Chairman, Agricultural Adaptation Council
No, no, we can do it. Going back to the grand scheme of things, the adaptation council was thought up by a group of farm leaders, so it was very basic, very commonsense, the rules were simple, and it was broad in scope. Unfortunately, over time the scope has narrowed. We're out there ahead of the thing on the risk curve, so we're funding things that are risky, and then the government would create a whole new program to take over some of those firsts. We're the leading edge, and now we have, as the gentleman said, a broad range of programs.
There are almost too many. We need to come back to have a broader single program or fewer programs, and with fewer rules. It's just that our flexibility is reduced, and our membership—our constituents who apply for these dollars—need the flexibility because of the business we're in and the risks we take.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Gord, are you expecting the same delay next year with respect to the announcement and availability of money? As of March, are you anticipating that it will be changed next year?
4:10 p.m.
President, Ontario Agri-Food Technologies
No. These are four-year programs, so now there is a system in place. But as Kim indicated, it's front-loaded, so suddenly there are five months, when we should have twelve months to get the very best projects out the door.
It will go, but what I'm trying to ensure is that when this ends in 2013 we don't have another seven-month hiatus, because now, without grants, we are going to zero out. You zero out, and everybody in Ottawa will still have their job, but all these great staff who report to our board have no income, because we had to absolutely zero out—“And oh, by the way, seven months later we'll start the money flow again.” That, to me, is the greatest fear, and let's make sure it doesn't happen.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank committee members for their indulgence. I'm not a regular member of this committee, so thank you.
I want to go on record as saying that I've personally seen the value of the Agricultural Adaptation Council in my area, and certainly your submission affirms many of the thoughts I've had about leveraging money and that sort of thing. For me, it's very similar to the CFTCs, the community futures development corporations that we're familiar with, whereby you put money into the hands of local people who understand the local culture and business environment, are close to the ground, and can make informed decisions on behalf of a group who may not understand that—someone who is here in Ottawa or in Toronto and who, as Gord said, hasn't been on a farm. So I certainly applaud the efforts of the adaptation council, and I have seen great projects.
You pointed out a number of things that are crucial in terms of timing, understanding the local scene, accountability, and then you went on to the fact that the agreements weren't signed until November. That, hopefully, will not be repeated.
But I have a question regarding the new process, this new policy that was put into place, apparently in October 2008. Did Agriculture Canada seek the input of the adaptation council, or at least inform them well in advance that these changes were coming and seek feedback? That's the first question.
Secondly, regarding the five-month timeframe in which you have to get this money out, is there a pent-up demand? Are there a number of projects sitting at the door that you've had the opportunity to at least pre-screen, so that we can get this money flowing?
There are two questions. I don't care which one of the three of you answers.
4:10 p.m.
Chairman, Agricultural Adaptation Council
On the latter question of pent-up demand, we've been through this process. There was CARD I, a five-year program, CARD II, and then ACAF. We've been through it before. When it went from CARD II to ACAAF, again it was announced in January, and we received the money but didn't have the rules and regulations until November of that year, I think. But because it was a grant, we had some money left over from previous programs and didn't have to zero it out at the end of March of the fifth year.
Again this time we had some dollars left in the Ontario account and we were able to continue to accept applications for projects. We've depleted almost all that money, but hopefully, now that we're able to announce the new program to our constituents, we'll get them in the loop and bring them on board.
Did you want to cover administration?
4:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Agricultural Adaptation Council
Yes.
The council was definitely consulted about this change, and we were very vocal. We wrote letters to the minister. We wrote letters to the ADMs. We were part of meetings in Ottawa.
Our council was fortunate, because we were one of 14 across Canada who had experience, under the agriculture policy framework, delivering contribution agreements. We were running contribution agreements and grants side by side. We could tell, and we could confirm, that we'd be doubling the administration, doubling the workload, and slowing flexibility and client service. We had perfect knowledge of that. We disclosed that. We expressed concern. We were consulted again. We emphasized and shared all of our learning.
I think that's what was frustrating: we were running the programs, and we could compare, but we just couldn't get through the points we had to make about our experience delivering contributions.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
I want to go on record again as complimenting your group for the work you do. I've seen it in my area, and I applaud your efforts.
I can't speak for my committee members, but I'm sure they'll put their heads together to try to find a creative way forward.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you very much, Mr. Albrecht.
We do have to move on to the report that we're trying to get done.
I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for coming here today. It was very valuable and it was appreciated. Safe travels home.
Thanks again.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
