Evidence of meeting #7 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
That is because they are still searching for quality. In fact, that has always been the case.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
That is also attributable to the increase in Hong Kong. We now are therefore less dependent on the United States.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
We are much less dependent.
Bloc
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
Yes, and we are proving that in Japan. Allow me to give you an example. Three years ago, our products were sold in 10% of Japanese supermarkets, but that ratio is now above 25%. That is proof that our approach is paying off. As well, we are talking about fresh, high value pork.
President, Canada Pork International
Canada Pork International was founded for just that reason, to minimize our dependence on the United States. At any given moment, they will take some form of countervailing action or dump their products. Today, there is the all issue of COOL labelling. We simply cannot depend on them for 75% of our exports, as was the case a few years ago. We have to keep on producing quality products and strive to improve them. I think that the current crisis is only temporary and will not last for the next ten years. I do hope however that it will be as short as possible. When things start to recover, when clients will again be in a position to spend money and have regained confidence, they will be looking for quality products. Quality producers will have an advantage.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Mr. Preugschas, to come back to the U.S. regulation concerning country of origin labelling, or the COOL measure, you indicated in your presentation that the action taken by the U.S. Department of Agriculture would also have an impact on their jobs and trade. I would like you to put on the record whether there are arguments we can empress upon the Americans. Earlier, Wayne spoke to us about the association representing Canada and the United States. He said that it allowed us to meet with representatives of U.S. Congress. I am wondering whether they know that this measure could have a negative impact on them. I know that some U.S. Congress people are aware of that, but that is not the case with the Agriculture Secretary.
What can we tell those people to inform them that such measures also have negative effects in the U.S.?
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
I think it's fairly safe to say that at the farm level in our integrated industry between Canada and the U.S., many of our producers who send weanling pigs into the U.S. to get them finished in the U.S.... Thirty-three per cent, I think it is, of those farms are now standing empty in the United States. Those young farmers who invested to build barns to take Canadian hogs are now going broke in the U.S.
In addition, the animals that were going across were going into packing houses and to processors in the United States. Our live hogs that are being marketed have dropped by two-thirds. Sixty-six per cent of the live hogs that were being slaughtered in the U.S. are now being slaughtered in Canada. These will probably just drop off, ultimately; guys will quit producing them if they're not profitable. But right now, they are creating shortages in their plants, and they can't get the efficiencies anymore. Because of the hogs that aren't going to come online from those weanling hogs and are not going there, they are going to shut down more of their plants and lose jobs.
Thirdly, concerning the voluntary thing that Mr. Vilsack is talking about for processed pork, many of our packing houses sell cuts into the U.S. that are further processed. That's going to dry up as well. I would challenge each of you, when you talk to congressmen or senators in the U.S., to bring up the COOL aspect and talk about those points and make it clear that they're also damaging themselves, as well as us.
Conservative
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
Thank you very much for being here, Jurgen. You seem to be going back and forth to Ottawa almost as much as I am.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
No. That's why I have no sympathy for my colleagues from Ontario.
There are a couple of threads coming through here. I think most people are in agreement that our government is trying to get us more market access, that we are trying at a diplomatic level to challenge COOL, that we have a market secretariat that's trying to access more markets. But the feeling I'm getting is that this isn't quite enough, that we have to crank it up to another level. I'd like someone to expand on that. That's my first question.
My second question is, how much of our consumption do we import? How much pork do we import into our country?
That leads me to look at my next question. We're doing the best we can, we're trying to get markets, we're trying to challenge. Off and on we do challenges, but the results don't come for two or three years. What happens if ultimately we're not successful in challenging the COOL? What happens if we're not successful in opening or expanding the markets we need in the United States?
We discussed, for example, the National Farmers Union report, which has a number of recommendations, some controversial, some that many people can agree to. One of them concerns captive supply. I'd like to know whether that exists in the pork industry and whether in fact we shouldn't have it because it would increase the price.
The other controversial item is whether we need to start thinking about some kind of orderly marketing or supply management as we pursue the exterior markets, so that we have a backup.
As for CFIA, as you have said: we need additional technical resources. I would ask you to give us some more details about that. Furthermore, I know that the problem with the railroads is affecting all sectors, including the forestry sector in my riding. In this time of economic crisis, Canadian Pacific has increased its rates instead of lowering them.
The European Union's quota for our pork, I believe, is 0.5% now. Shouldn't we really be pushing in any negotiations with the European Union to bring it up to an acceptable level, at least similar to that in our supply management, which I believe is 5% and 7.5% for...? Before we do anything, should that be our major thrust, to get into that market?
I'll stop there. Hopefully we will have some time for some answers.
Thank you.
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Maybe I can start. There are about 23 questions in there.
Conservative
Chair, Canadian Pork Council
Okay, I'll be very quick.
In terms of whether we are looking at orderly marketing supply management, absolutely no. We're an export market. It doesn't work, and let's not waste our time on that. It's just totally unacceptable.
There's a lot of U.S. pork coming in. I believe it's about 200,000 tonnes' worth, which is about half of our fresh pork consumption in Canada.
Are we interested in something like country of origin labelling in Canada? Absolutely not. We're opposed to it in the U.S. Why would we be in favour of it in Canada? All it does is increase costs.
I'll leave it at that, and I'll let Jacques or Edouard look at the export stuff.
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
On the railways, I'll give you an example. CP just refused to handle chilled pork for three weeks around Christmas. That is completely unacceptable. How can we supply the Japanese market if we have to say, sorry, we can't deliver the product? That is one thing.
Also, you only have two hours for your container to get onto that platform. If you miss it, for whatever reason, you have to reschedule your container. We're talking about perishable products here. The one thing we have always suggested and recommended is to have the same treatment at the port. The Port of Vancouver is not always very reliable, as you know; they have threats of strikes once in a while. And we also need to be declared an essential commodity like wheat is. That's another thing.
Now, as for technical resources, there are very few people left now at the CFIA who have the level of expertise required to deal with the Russians or other countries. It was all right until two or three years ago, but when BSE started, then we really found ourselves in trouble. There doesn't seem to be a concerted effort at the CFIA to increase the number of technical people required to negotiate with foreign governments, and also to train new people—because you don't become an expert overnight. That's one thing that people need to recognize. At the CFIA, we're always told, yes, but we are doing what we can with our limited resources. We agree on that, but I think that's why we asked the Canadian government to take another look at the resources of the CFIA and to remedy that situation, and not to cut positions but to add them.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
In 2004, as interpreter for a Soviet veterinarian, I visited 17 pork slaughter houses in Canada. Each one of those was exporting to Russia, so I'm wondering if that means there are fewer now exporting to Russia?
Executive Director, Canada Pork International
No, in fact there are more. But the Russians have the habit of delisting plants after one test, and their standards are not the same as those in the other countries. They use this as a way to limit imports.
You were also talking about the European Union. The WTO has.... There was some kind of a preliminary deal with the European Union to increase the quota. So we've asked the Canadian negotiators to go for a tariff-free quota specific to Canada under the free trade agreement, because the European Union is actually importing less than 0.5% of their total consumption. If they were to go for 5%, it would mean something like a couple of million tonnes of imports. Right now they import less than 75,000 tonnes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
The time is up, but I know, Mr. Rice, that you want to make a comment. If you can keep it brief, fine. If not, I'm sure you'll probably get a chance to bring it up later.
Executive Director, Canadian Pork Council
I will just say that we in Canada need the WTO to get back on the rails, because that's where we can catch up with the U.S. again. The U.S. has achieved a lot of bilateral advantages over the last couple of years, which we need to close.
Conservative
