Agriculture Committee on April 27th, 2010

[Brian Buckman]

Absolutely, we do. The biggest problem we have in our area, though, is some of that diversification. Other guys aren't doing it.

One example would be the fusarium coming in. A lot of it was brought in through the U.S. corn. It's huge. That area has grown barley, barley, barley, and now we're all around it. That corn was imported, we've got grains around it, and our government is doing nothing for us on some of those issues. They'll slam us in one spot, and then they turn a blind eye to the next spot.

Yes, I have to diversify. I can't worry about whether my durum is going to be $2 or $4, I have to grow different crops so I have something to market. I have bills to pay every quarter; I have to have something to market. Where the CWB says I have to market when they want it, I can't tell the bank I'll pay you when the CWB takes my wheat. I can't do that. If I have quarter payments, I've got to make sure that's there. That's why I have gone to the different grains like the feed grain or canola or flax.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Alan, did you want to make a comment?

[Alan Brecka]

It's quite similar, actually. I sit on the computer for probably an hour to an hour and a half a day, and I get three to four bids--canola and everything. That's why I've gone into pulses in the last three years--the cash crops, the canola and everything.

There's no point in looking on the Wheat Board website this year, because you know it's only going to be 60% and you know what the price is. You don't get any cash daily bids from Pioneer for durum. So that's why I've diversified the farm in the last few years.

My dad was a straight barley and durum man because it always paid the bills. Now it doesn't pay the bills any more. I've moved on, and it still didn't quite pay all the bills this year.

[Brian Buckman]

It's funny, I farmed a section of Alan's dad's farm while Alan was working. What year was it, Alan? We sat down at the table one day and we went over our income and expenses. It was wheat and barley for Alan's dad. That's what you grew: wheat and barley. We had canola, and I said “I can't continue to do this, Stan. Either you pay some expenses or we're going to have to do some changes.” Alan's dad is a big Wheat Board guy. He said “I've made my money and done well, you're going to do that.” I said “Then we're not going to rent any more.” And that's when Alan came back on the farm. So I guess I gave him an opportunity to make some money.

He's been a good friend; we've been family friends forever. It's great to work with your neighbours, but you have to make money doing it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I think we have a little less than ten minutes left.

Mark, would you try to keep it to one question, if you could?

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I have a question for Lee. You're in the egg business, and you have bees, is it?

Yesterday when we were at the orchards they were saying how critical the beekeepers are to their operations. And I think canola also needs pollination.

I think Alberta has quite a substantial honey operation. How do you see the federal government enhancing that? Should the program be separate for beekeepers, or where do you see the big problems? Should the government have more research on diseases? Where do you see the bee industry itself as maybe a bigger industry in the scheme of things?

[Lee Townsend]

That's a good question. For the last three years we've faced pretty big losses, as everyone is aware. We applied for ag-recovery funds. We petitioned or lobbied for more research facilities, more researchers, more educators, and nothing was coming our way.

So we joined with the Alberta government, the Alberta Beekeepers Association, the hybrid seed canola companies, and we formed a hive health program. We went around with the technicians and we trained and educated beekeepers in how to get their hives healthy again, how to expand. The big are getting bigger; the small ones are disappearing because they don't want to put that time and effort in. Farming is no longer farming; farming is a business, and that's how they have to treat it.

We took it upon ourselves to help ourselves because there was no help coming down the pipeline. If we had waited for the federal government or the provincial government to do it on their own, we would have died--we absolutely would have died--so we had to do it all on our own.

Now that they've seen that--and I think it's a big thing when we can show government we can take the initiative and do something to better our industry, improve it and grow it--I think that goes a long way for the government to jump on board and help us out.

With respect to your question of how the government can help us expand the industry or grow it, we basically did it in Alberta with the hive health program, and other provinces are looking at doing that too. That's something that if the government wanted to jump on board and really assist us with that, it would be great.

One more comment is that we had a course at Fairview College for agriculturalists, for beekeeper technicians. That died. That's going to be started again in January 2011. So we're also taking an active role in education for the industry. But again, it was industry that had to lead that.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you.

Do I have any time left? I have one small one.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

We may get time to come back.

Mr. Lemieux.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you for your presence here today.

There was some discussion about AgriStability, some of the programming, and farmers not wanting to earn their livelihood from government cheques. It is somewhat of a dilemma we find ourselves in as a government. As was mentioned yesterday, we met with fruit growers. There were some complaints about AgriStability and whether it was paying out or not, and helping or not.

I want to let you know that through AgriStability about $3.4 billion to $3.8 billion is paid out almost every year to farmers. In a sense it's money that's not seen, because it's not advertised or announced. It just gets delivered. I'm not sure that's the answer either. The programs are to help people get by in a crisis, but you don't want them masking market conditions or deeper problems. There's always a risk of that. If a lot of money flows from the government over a long period of time, deeper problems can be masked by that because we're just getting by.

Other than programming, what is one thing a few of you could mention as a key thing that government could do, other than programming, that would actually help you?

[Brian Buckman]

It could audit some of the payouts.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Do you mean through the program?

[Brian Buckman]

It could audit the payouts to the people who got the money to see if they needed it and deserved it. Did you ever read the book The Boy Who Cried Wolf?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. Good.

Does anyone else have something they would like to add?

[Alan Brecka]

I agree with that. In our area there are those intensive livestock operations. Basically we had to sell the smaller guys out. It's been money that.... You know, they cried wolf. There's all the propaganda with feedlot foods, money, beef, and this and that.

They get their billions of dollars handed to them. The Liberal government, back in 2003 or 2004, handed out $995 million and we hardly saw any of that. Now these guys are buying up land at ridiculous prices. How can they still be losing money? It makes me so mad inside. I sit there in my 30-year-old tractor farming honestly, and he's in his new tractor. He has a 1,000- or 5,000-head feedlot he's losing money on, but he's driving around in a $200,000 tractor and a $60,000 truck. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Good. Thank you.

Anyone else?

[Rod Scarlett]

Other than programming, if we're looking at the future the biggest change will be in management training. I think Darcy mentioned future farming and how it has changed. Going back to the 1970s and 1980s, farmers made money on production. Now you don't make money on production; you make money running a business. I think training, education, and how to farm are going to be key. Governments can step in and assist in that training.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

I think we have time for one quick question.

Francis.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Darcy, you made reference to subsidies. Last year in committee my understanding was that some provinces offered different subsidies for different farming operations. Can you reflect for us on the subsidies available for your industry in Alberta, because I think there's diversity between provinces?

[Darcy Davis]

Sure. As these guys have mentioned, we had FRP I and II in Alberta. They were one-offs that weren't offered in other provinces. We've seen Quebec offer their ASRA program to their producers. So different provinces do different things that skew markets. I think Saskatchewan even had a cow-calf payout last year, which was a first for them. With some of the wealth from potash, I guess they feel they can do it.

I think you've raised a really important point. We have these national meetings of agriculture ministers from across the country where they discuss agricultural policies. I think we need to start having some really hard discussions about what's happening in trade between provinces and what's being offered between provinces, and hold each other accountable.

In my experience, beef producers, especially in the Maritimes, have been deeply injured by Quebec subsidies. They've really been hurt by them. Their provinces don't have the treasuries to compete with that. So you have those kinds of things happening. I don't know if the national government could police those kinds of things, or how we could get around them. It's a real problem.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Are there any current ones in Alberta?

[Darcy Davis]

Any one-offs at this point? I guess spring price endorsement on grain would be one, but that's a self-funded program that you buy premiums on. And there's cattle price insurance as well, which is self-funded. The administration is paid by the provincial government.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much, gentlemen. As always, we never seem to have enough time, but I really appreciate all of you taking the time to come here today. I know how hard that is to do.

Brian, you touched on one issue. I have a private member's bill that deals with large, publicly traded corporate companies. If it's successful, they will not be able to have access to regular government programs. You can't make it illegal for a packer to own hogs or cattle. You can't make it illegal for different grain. They can own them, but I've always been of the belief that they shouldn't be able to access the same type of money that you as producers can.

Some misinformation out about my private member's bill: it does not affect large corporate farms, family corporate farms, in any way whatsoever. It's only publicly traded corporate companies. I'll pass my card around to all of you, and maybe some of the other members will. I would invite comment on it, because it hasn't come before the House. If you're critical of it, I want to hear that, but ultimately the goal is to get it so that real farmers get to access that money, and not large corporations.

Thank you again.

André.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I want to say something to Mr. Davis. When he mentioned the subsidies in Quebec that angered the other provinces, I was not sure whether he was talking about ASRA, the farm income stabilization insurance program.

I would just say that producers in Quebec pay for it. It is an insurance system. They pay for that insurance out of their pockets. So it is not some windfall. That is what I wanted to clarify.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I think that's a fair statement. Some provinces support agriculture, and Quebec is one of them. I wish my province of Ontario did a little bit.

Anyway, thanks again, gentlemen. We really appreciate it.

The meeting is adjourned.