Agriculture Committee on Nov. 16th, 2010

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Good morning, everybody.

Larry informed me last week that he would not be able to attend this meeting, so he asked me to sit in as vice-chair. He also assured me that what we're doing today seems to be pretty straightforward.

There have been some changes. Some of our guests couldn't be here today, so we're going to have them in a few weeks' time. Today we're going to be dealing with motions and the steering committee report.

The whole meeting is going to be out of camera, so it'll be public. Just keep that in context.

I think what we're going to start off with is our steering committee report and see if we can get that done first.

We had a very good discussion in our steering committee report. I think when you look up until Christmas, we wanted to tidy up a whole lot of odds and ends, issues that everybody had on their mind, but we also wanted to have some time at the end to start looking into the bioscience research.

I think I'm going to let the clerk have the floor and explain....

Go ahead.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, a question first.

The witnesses that I think we were expecting today were with the department, were they not? It's on what is a...it's not even impending anymore; it is a crisis in the hog and beef sector. In fact, I talked to an individual this morning on Prince Edward Island and he is now working on over 30 cases with the Farm Debt Review Board--three bankruptcies in the last two weeks--and it is extremely serious.

So what is the reason that Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada could not appear today? They've got a big department. They've got lots of people. This issue is serious. To delay it further is not going to deal with some of the.... It is going to see some people fall through the cracks.

It's not only in P.E.I. I was in the Interlake in Manitoba, in Saskatchewan, and there are serious, serious problems out there. People don't know how to handle the emergency cash advances that are impending. It is throwing off cashflows that are being negotiated with lenders over a four-year period.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Easter.

I think at our steering committee it was noted that it was quite important that the officials come sooner than later. I think the clerk talked a bit about that. Somehow today is not a good day, but I think we're going to have to put their feet to the fire one way or another to come at another meeting.

The clerk wants to talk a little bit about when they could possibly come, and then you can—

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Chair, can I just jump in, just to say a few words—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Yes, go ahead.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

—to my moustached friends, as I look around the room?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Just remember all this is in public, so be careful what you say about your colleagues.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, very good.

I just wanted to point out, Chair, that I'm not sure why the department couldn't show up today. But I would like to say that I think the way we've been operating to date as the committee is that the steering committee meets, they propose a schedule, and then the steering committee prepares a report.

The steering committee is only made up of four members, right? And there are more than four members on the main committee. So normally the report is presented to the main committee and the main committee ends up accepting or amending--at least having a chance to discuss the main report. I think that's where we're at today. We're going to be discussing the report presented by the—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Sorry, you arrived late, but that's what we're starting to do. The clerk was just starting to—

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Right, but all I'm saying, Chair, is that at the steering committee it was decided to have the department. But the main committee hadn't read or debated or discussed or voted in or amended...hadn't had any chance to really deal with the report from the subcommittee. In the subcommittee, of course, that would have been one of the first agenda items.

So I think it's good practice, and it's a practice we've been following, actually. It's a good practice that before the schedule is actually locked in or acted upon, the schedule be discussed at the main committee if it's being proposed by a subcommittee.

I'm not suggesting that the subcommittee has to redo the work of the steering committee. I'm not suggesting that. I'm just saying it is good practice that the main committee look at what the steering committee is proposing before it's implemented.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Sure. And with all due respect, I think the committee thought it would not be too out of the realm...to have some department officials here. But I don't want to get into a debate.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, that's fine.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

I think I have a couple more people who want to speak.

Committee, I'm going to try to get through this morning as easy as possible with everybody—I don't chair every meeting—and I would just hope that we keep our comments short, because we have two agendas we have to do. We have to deal with the motions that we have on the floor. And if we're going to do everything we want to do between now and Christmas, let's proceed as quickly as we can to get the steering committee done, the report, and get our motions done.

Mr. Bellavance, and then I think it's Alex and then Wayne.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Thank you.

We just got our answer. Pierre just said that the officials are not here because he and the Conservatives want to look at the program that was reviewed at the steering committee before the witnesses appear. So, there's our answer.

Except that I find it appalling because we have already discussed in committee the possibility of having officials testify about program review. We wanted to review the steering committee report the same day. I'm sure we'll have these officials come and discuss it one of these days.

This isn't the first time it has been complicated to get officials to appear; normally, it should be much easier. Actually, they are already here. They don't need to travel anywhere. But suddenly, they have to go to Toronto, so that they don't have to appear here. I find that appalling.

I would like Pierre to tell me if the minister might still join us on Thursday. That would help us set the schedule for the rest of the session. I would really like for us to get to work as quickly as possible.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

I think we've got Alex, then Wayne, and then Pierre wants to tighten up so he can answer any questions.

Alex.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I think it's important to understand that when we had our steering committee meeting there was a representative from each party. When I left that meeting, I even asked the chair, who was a representative of the Conservatives, “Does this look okay? Are things fine?” And he said yes. So we all came out in agreement.

Normally what happens when steering committees do that, unless there's a lot of dissension, it's basically a rubber stamp, we go on, and we move on. We were led to believe this would be the case, and in that case, that's where we wanted to get these guys in from the department.

It seems ludicrous that a department made up of hundreds of people can't have somebody here to answer our questions. All of a sudden they're in Toronto. On my bill, the debate was shut down because I had agreed to do this, that we could have some people here as soon as possible to look and see what's going on in the farming sector. Now we're backing up again. It's almost as if this side doesn't want these guys to appear. I don't quite understand what's happening here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Atamanenko.

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, I think the department was invited, and maybe the clerk has the stated reasons that they didn't appear.

But just on the steering committee itself, I don't know why the chair always calls the steering committee for regular committee meetings. Other committees don't all work that way. It should be called at a separate time so that we do not take regular meeting time for the steering committee to meet.

As well, I don't know others' feelings on this, but I have been looking at other committees and I've heard the chair say that he wouldn't vote if there was another Conservative member present to carry the government half. If we want to re-look at that sometime, I don't mind re-looking at it, if that would make things run more smoothly. But I don't think today's the day for that discussion.

I certainly believe the steering committee should meet at times other than regular committee business.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Before we go over to the government side, I just have two points.

One, Alex was right. The steering committee had a very good meeting. All sides were brought out, and we cast through a lot to get some sort of balance, because we know this is a good opportunity in the next two months to get a lot of things, to get a lot of people in. There was a lot of good karma at that steering committee, so we hope it'll transfer.

Also, to your point, Mr. Easter, that point was brought up to the chair and he agreed. He said in the future he's willing to try to have steering committees not during the main meeting. That was brought up, and he's agreeable to trying something different.

We have Pierre.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thanks, Chair.

I'd like to agree with Mr. Easter. Yes, having steering committee meetings outside of regular meetings is a good idea. I think the steering committee can probably work that out amongst themselves.

I want to take this last opportunity to clarify what Mr. Bellavance was saying, because what he said was inaccurate. He's saying that I said the reason the department is not here is because we hadn't seen the steering committee report. That's absolutely untrue; it's absolutely not what I said. I said I don't know why the department is not here. I don't speak to the department. I did not invite the department. I did not discourage the department from coming. The clerk communicated with the department, not me.

My only point is that it is good practice for the main committee to review a steering committee report before it's implemented, and it's a practice that we've been following to date. I want to clarify that, because I think it's unfair when another member says this is what happened when that's not what happened at all, and it's not what I said happened.

So I'm just clearing the record, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you.

In an ideal world, if we would have had a meeting earlier, then we wouldn't have wasted a meeting. I'm hoping this meeting shows good faith amongst us all, that we're moving forward and that we're going to move forward. I think if there are questions on why the department is not here, they can be asked to the minister on Thursday. I think if he wants to clear the air, that's where he can do so.

Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The only time that seems to be in good faith is when the opposition feels they're running over the government with the agenda in this committee. The fact of the matter is that the steering committee would work a lot better, as we've said many times, if the government representative was allowed to be there, rather than the chair, who Mr. Easter constantly accuses of being partisan. Then you put him in a position where he's supposed to be non-partisan. It makes it very difficult.

Anyway, the point I would like to make when we're looking at the agenda to the schedule is that we have a whole whackload of motions by Mr. Easter and every one of them is an emergency as of the date he puts it down. We have motions by Mr. Richards, Mr. Bellavance, and Mr. Atamanenko. We only have one motion on something that is a joint motion from two parties, Mr. Hoback and Mr. Valeriote, and I think it's something that.... Our committee is far more effective when we're not looking at partisan things and trying to take shots at each other, but is trying to move forward in some sort of consensual way.

I think this biotech motion is one where we can do that and get a very substantive study ahead of where policy presently is. I think we should be looking at that and maybe elevating that in the cycle of importance here.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Let's move on. We hope we're not going to be partisan here today. We have to work for the benefit of the food producers in our country and try to get some constructive stuff done over the next few weeks.

There's one more point, Mr. Storseth. I think--and I could be wrong--most steering committees do not have the PS on them. It's nothing personal, but I think that mostly has been a standard practice here. Usually the PS is not on the steering committee, because it could cause a little more problems. I think you'll see that in most steering committees the PS is not on them. There's nothing wrong with government being on it, of course.

I think we're going to go with Mr. Valeriote. Then I hope we can get back into the meat of what we're trying to do over the next few months here.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

This is not meant as a partisan statement, Mr. Storseth, but sometimes the impression that is left when invitations are given and people don't attend is that there's a certain degree of avoidance. While that may not be the intent, it's the impression that's certainly strongly being left.

My question is, Mr. Chair, through you to the clerk, did the department get asked to attend today? If they were asked, what was their response? Are they available on Thursday? If not Thursday, when?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

I think if we can give the clerk the floor now for the next little while, she can address very shortly what's happening with the department, but then I want her to go right into our steering committee report.

Go ahead, Clerk.