Agriculture Committee on Feb. 13th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You have about half a minute, if you want to use it.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes.

My question is once again for Mr. Tierney and Mr. Gorrell.

In Quebec, the agricultural world is still comprised largely of family farms. We still have the good fortune of having family farms belonging to young people from the third or fourth generation who have decided to take over the family business. Who are the industry players who work with the secretariat in this field and strive to ensure the transfer of these businesses and continuity in the marketing of products?

[Steve Tierney]

The sector's mandate is more focused on international, such as helping find markets for the farmers in Quebec or elsewhere in Canada, and hence helping their revenues increase, and thereby indirectly answering your question. That's really the mandate of the Market Access Secretariat.

[Jean Rousseau, NDP, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

Now we go to Mr. Lobb for five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The first question I have is for Mr. Mayers. It's one of the questions I hear from producers in my riding all the time, which is that the CFIA is tougher on our producers trying to export products into other markets than they actually are on goods coming into our own country. They are very compelled to comment on this. I just wonder if you can comment on that, and if you feel that's the case. If not, what are you doing to ensure that it doesn't become the case?

[Paul Mayers]

Thank you very much.

It is a perception that we often hear as well. Let me first assure the committee that there is only one set of rules. Those rules apply to imports the same way they apply to products moving domestically. Indeed, in the context of products that are exported, if there are any additional considerations, those are not CFIA requirements. They may be specific requirements that the importing country has presented, and CFIA has been asked to certify that those additional requirements have been met.

In terms of our oversight—and this may be the basis for that perception—domestic manufacturers and producers see the CFIA in our actions. Of course, when we deal with imports, we deal with them as they reach our borders. The foreign manufacturer doesn't see CFIA as directly. That might contribute to the perception.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

That builds upon my second question. Of course, I think we've all been curious of this, when we go into the grocery store and we see an apple from Chile, or we see a can of canned fruit from China. How does the CFIA ensure that the sprays and the treatment of that piece of fruit are under the same regulations as those a Canadian producer would have to meet? How do you do that if the first contact is at the border? How does CFIA enforce this at the point of the foreign producer?

[Paul Mayers]

Thank you.

The first component, as it relates to issues of pesticide use and any residue of pesticides, is through the sampling and testing programs we operate as an agency. We operate a national chemical residue monitoring program that collects samples, and we monitor for a vast range of chemical residues. In addition to that, where particular issues have emerged over time—any trends in terms of products—we have applied a targeted program to certain commodities where we sample and test.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

For example, if chicken is coming into Canada from China, you will test toxin levels in the actual meat of the chicken on a random basis.

[Paul Mayers]

That's correct. For any imported product, there is the opportunity to sample and test that product. In the case of residues, they are compared to the maximum residue limits that Canada has established.

So even where a pesticide is not used in Canada, our colleagues at Health Canada may have established a maximum residue limit to use to determine the acceptability of that product.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I have a final question for both Mr. Gorrell and Mr. Tierney.

I wonder if you can give us the current state of the Market Access Secretariat. How is it performing right now, and how is it going to continue to evolve as we move forward?

The second part of my question concerns a story in the Globe and Mail today about flight costs inside certain departments. Moving forward, I wonder how you are looking at ways to contain your travel costs to foreign countries.

I know you mentioned that in your presentation, Mr. Tierney.

[Steve Tierney]

We anticipate that the Market Access Secretariat will continue to focus on opening markets where they're dealing with access issues, but will be moving more into relationship-building, as they've been doing with China.

The emerging markets where we're having the most market access issues are primarily in agricultural countries. The farming means more to them than anything else, even as they're transitioning from a rural to an urban society. There are still 800 million people living in rural China, for example. So as they're making that movement, they're looking to us for knowledge, capacity, training, and so on.

The Market Access Secretariat minister has been signing memorandums of understanding and cooperation with these emerging markets. Because we are successful at resolving market access issues, we hope the Market Access Secretariat will be focusing on the maintenance of market access through these kinds of cooperation agreements.

What we want is access to their markets. What they want is the knowledge and research, the genetics we have—all world-class. They want training in the food safety system so they can produce crops and trade within their regional bases.

We think that if all goes well—no new bird flu or livestock diseases—the Market Access Secretariat will be able to focus as much or more on maintaining access, because we've been successful there.

As far as costs, the number of people on any mission has been going down. People are flying economy across the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. We've generally made a commitment to reduce our travel costs each year, so we're prioritizing. At the same time, we're making sure that we develop the best service to industry, our minister, and the government.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

On behalf of taxpayers, if you're looking at doing that and have already commenced that, I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Atamanenko, you have five minutes.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thank you very much, gentlemen, for taking the time to be here.

Mr. Mayers, I'm going to address my first question to you. I'm now working on a file on a company in my riding called SBC Firemaster. In western Canada, they're probably the largest exporter of firewood to the United States. For your information, I'm going to be presenting a letter to the minister tomorrow with some concerns. Maybe this will give you a heads-up.

Basically, what happened is that this very successful company, which has been exporting firewood to the United States for 26 years, suddenly had the border shut down to them last year. Instead of having just one inspection per year, 40 of their trucks were inspected in a period of one month and 35 were turned back. They spent over $100,000 on inspection fees and fines, lost $1.5 million, and had to lay off staff. It was a real shock to this very successful Canadian company.

The trade minister, I believe, worked hard and got the border reopened; I was working with him on that and am following up with him and with the minister. But in the letter to me from the sales manager, Mr. John Jefferson, he raises some concerns about the involvement of CFIA on this file.

I guess on the first concern—and I don't have the letter in front of me—I'm wondering what kind of standardization there is. Apparently, they were turned back at the border because their pallets did not accept the requirements of heat treatment, whereas in fact pallets that are imported...and these were supposedly imported from other countries. Apparently, if the pallets are imported into Canada, they are inspected by you folks, and theoretically they should be then allowed across the border because they've already been inspected. He feels that the Americans did not accept our standards. I was wondering what the relationship is there, between CFIA and....

The other concern he expresses is that because of a lack of communication between I guess USDA and CFIA, although the new requirements were known in March of last year, their company was blindsided because they didn't receive notice from CFIA.

Once again, I'm raising these questions with the minister. I'm just giving you a heads-up with that.

I'm wondering what kind of communication exists on the ground. I've worked successfully with you folks before to solve issues dealing with the Americans. What is that relationship on the ground? Is there a standardization so that our businesses aren't being hit hard by arbitrary U.S. decisions?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Mayers, just before you answer that, could you just explain to me—if not to anybody else—why the Canadian Food Inspection Agency would be in on inspecting wood?

Is that okay with you, Alex?

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Yes, of course.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I won't take that off your time.

[Paul Mayers]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has three elements to its mandate. Certainly, food safety is the number one priority, but we have equally important responsibilities in terms of protecting Canada's animal-based resources—an animal health responsibility, if you will—and Canada's plant-based resources, a plant health responsibility. In this case, the issue is of both the firewood itself and any wooden pallets used in transporting the firewood. Wooden pallets, as you can imagine, are used in the transport of many, many products, so the movement of plant pests in wooden pallets is an important phytosanitary consideration, and that's why CFIA plays a role in that respect.

We work very closely, in the context of the question, with our counterparts in the U.S.—the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service. Indeed, there's a very high level of collaboration around the management of plant pests. In fact, the Regulatory Cooperation Council includes one initiative that relates around the issue of wood and pallets in terms of the international standard, ISPM 15, which relates to the heat treatment of these commodities. In the context of the specific example that you raise, we are aware of it and have worked hard with our U.S. counterparts.

Mr. Chair, if you will indulge me, I will just explain what happened. When a regulatory agency, in terms of the import of products, identifies non-compliance, it normally then moves that particular exporter to a higher level of scrutiny, and that happened here. So rather than the occasional inspection of products—not every single shipment is automatically inspected—companies where a non-compliance is identified then move to an intense level of inspection, and that would explain why they went from a level they were used to, to an increased level of intensity as it relates to their exports to the U.S. In that continued inspection they also then had further non-compliances, which continued, resulting in the unfortunate situation.

In working with the company, we were able to provide the company with some advice around heat treatment, which I understand they took up and as a result were able to resolve this issue. But as well, using this as an example, we've continued to work with our colleagues in USDA to explore how we can make for a more predictable trading regime as it relates to wooden pallets, recognizing the impact that can have on trade. Whether you're talking automobiles or firewood, wooden pallets can have an impact in terms of that trade, so it is extremely important for us to address it from a regulatory perspective.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired, Alex. Thank you.

Mr. Zimmer, you have the last five minutes in this round.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks again for coming today.

I have a question for Mr. Gorrell—a couple actually. When countries are looking to do business with our agriculture sector in Canada, what types of products are they interested in? It's a fairly general question, but....

[Fred Gorrell]

Thank you for the question.

Other countries are looking to engage in products from Canada. Is that...?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Yes.

[Fred Gorrell]

It can be across the board. Major sectors—