Agriculture Committee on Oct. 30th, 2012

[James Laws]

I think what some of our members would say is that, especially in a federally registered establishment where inspectors are around all the time, nothing would stop an employee from having a sidebar discussion with an inspector at any time. They would be able to do that. They certainly could do that. Would you actually need legislation? I would hope not. There are plenty of opportunities for people to talk to inspectors.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you.

Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thanks for coming today.

I want to ask you both a general question, and this is a big one. I want to know what your general impression of our current food safety system is before Bill S-11. Can you give your impression of it to the committee today?

[James Laws]

In terms of our general impression, we noted in one press release we put out that Canada is very successful. We currently export meat to more than 125 countries. Those countries come to Canada. They audit our system. There was a review done by, I think, one of the universities in Canada that ranked Canada very highly in food safety.

The last thing I will say is that every day in Canada there are about 100 million meals consumed, if people eat three meals per day. If you look at the Statistics Canada website where the 10 leading causes of death in Canada are ranked, food is not on the list. We're very fortunate in Canada that people don't generally worry about eating food.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Ms. Proud, you alluded in your statement earlier to the fact that Canadians are confident and still haven't really changed their habits a whole lot after this incident. Can you comment as well on what Canadians currently think, or what you think of our current system?

[Karen Proud]

We believe the system today works. We have an excellent food safety system in Canada. We work very well with the authorities in the interest of continuous improvement. This bill is another layer on that.

We have complete confidence in the system in Canada as we see it today.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Chairman, I am going to ask them to expound on that layer next.

My next question is, how do you think the new legislation, Bill S-11, will improve food safety for Canadians? What are your impressions specifically on that?

[James Laws]

One important thing that Bill S-11 puts in place is that it requires all the importers of food to be registered, which is not currently the situation. It's my understanding that a few years ago, when there was a scare involving imported melamine, they had trouble tracking it as quickly as they could have had they had all the importers registered, as this bill will require. It will make it a lot faster. It will help them out a great deal in that regard.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Ms. Proud.

[Karen Proud]

I would say that this bill, in harmonizing practices between the various commodity groups, is going to help with improvements such as Jim alluded to earlier. Inspectors learn from moving from commodity to commodity. Having inspectors who have a broader view of the food safety system generally is going to help improve the system.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I have a question for Mr. Laws.

You spoke earlier of one standard across Canada. I can see that working very effectively in many ways. We wouldn't have the interprovincial barriers that we sometimes have now. It sounds great, but to roll that out would be challenging, especially with provinces. Provinces obviously would need to support that as well. How would you see the rollout of that program?

[James Laws]

Trying to have one national beef standard certainly has been discussed for many years. It's a little strange, and it's difficult to explain to people that it's okay to move a product made in Ottawa to Kenora, Ontario, but you can't move it into Manitoba if it has been inspected only at the provincial level. It really is a difficult question to explain.

As for the recent changes made to the meat inspection regulations, and this pilot project that was put in place, I think it's a good first step to try to get everybody on a similar standard. If you look at the rules themselves, the larger a facility is, the more stringent the rules are surrounding what tests have to be done, for instance. If it is a smaller facility, it is a lower level of inspection, and it's a lower level of risk that's applied to certain categories of food. I hope that some day we can get to the point where we have the ability to have one system so meat can move between provinces in Canada.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I have one more—

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Thank you, but I'll have to stop you there.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Merv Tweed]

Ms. Brosseau.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much for being with us today.

In light of the recent E. coli outbreak, I know that a lot of people I talked to, when they went grocery shopping didn't know where the meat came from. When I would buy steak for my son and family, I didn't know where the meat came from as well. I was wondering if you could comment on labelling. Would that help? Would that be more encouraging and valuable?

[James Laws]

Are you talking specifically about which processing facility it came from?

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes, the processing facility, or maybe the province.

[James Laws]

Okay. If the meat is in a package that was prepared at a federally registered establishment, there is a crown on it, and there is an establishment number. You could go to the Internet and determine where it came from, but if it's a branded product, then you'll know. For instance, if it's a Maple Leaf product, the package indicates exactly where it comes from. Certainly, if there is more information that a company.... If they're branding their product, then you will know where it comes from.

Also, you could always ask the store. If the store is taking a product, cutting it up, and repackaging it, you could ask the store where they got it.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay.

Would it be a good idea to have cooking temperatures on the labelling for meat products?

[Karen Proud]

Health Canada has recently posted an information notice to consumers about cooking temperatures for tenderized beef in particular. At the same time, we've been working very closely with the department in getting that information to consumers.

I can tell you that some of our members have already labelled products right across Canada. Others are in the process of doing so. They're responding not only to Health Canada's suggestions, but to consumer demand.

It goes back to our members wanting to serve their consumers. Consumers are interested in getting this information, so our members have been labelling products. They've been putting temperatures on products, knowing that Health Canada is just launching into a review of the scientific evidence around proper cooking temperatures, which we'll be involved in quite intensely.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

For meat tenderizing, I wonder if you could speak to that, Mr. Laws. What do you think about meat tenderizing and labelling?

[James Laws]

Absolutely, and I did bring a few samples that I bought at the store yesterday. From the Canadian Meat Council's standpoint, about 10 years ago we called for mandatory labelling, particularly of ground beef, with proper food handling instructions, such as cooking temperature, how to wash your hands, etc.. We still think it's a good idea, especially on ground beef. It's not mandatory, but many stores do have it already.

The sample I have here is a very good example. It does say to cook the product to 71°C. It does say to use a thermometer. It does say to wash your hands, for instance. This is a really good label.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Should that be on steaks also? We had some problems with steaks and E. coli recently.