Evidence of meeting #76 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spirits.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
What is your company outlook for the future? It's such a competitive market—and, obviously, you know that. Where do you see yourself going?
We just bought some of this pop last summer, and we're really happy to see the brand back on the shelf. It think it was in a Zellers in Grande Prairie.
Where do you see yourself going?
12:50 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Pop Shoppe
Sadly, Zellers is no more, and we haven't been able to maintain our listing with Target. We continue to knock on doors and try to get the brand out there.
It's funny listening to Terry talk about the challenges with the wine industry. We face those same challenges as well. It's just getting product on the shelves. That's what we need to do.
So we're out there. We're knocking on doors. We continue to try to grow our brand out there. I recognize the fact that we're a smaller brand and that we're in a real niche part of the market. Our bottle typically sells on a store shelf for $1.29 for a small 355 millilitre bottle when you could buy a big honking 2 litre for 99¢ any day of the week at a local grocery store.
So we're really a niche market. I recognize that fact. I think our biggest amount of growth last year probably came from the U.S.. Pop Shoppe was a brand that was widely available throughout a number of different states within the U.S.. So we continue to push our efforts in the U.S. and try to grow our market and presence in that market.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Mr. Mulligan, again it's an honour for you to be here today. As a British Columbian, I watched you as a kid and it's good to talk to you today.
About your issue, this committee has heard from supermarkets and different producers that have actually had to pay for shelf space. We've heard that. Assumptions could be made about the liquor boards, too. We can make those assumptions, but there's no evidence yet, maybe.
I have a hope. I know Dan Albas well, and we hope that this issue will be resolved quickly. I think the wine issue has been tied up with the pipeline issue between our two provinces. That's where I see it tied up. I wish our two premiers would get along and possibly work things out and get wine flowing across the border.
On a positive note, the industry is doing really, really well. Assuming that this issue will be behind us fairly soon, what do you see as next? Do you see any other future issues on the horizon for B.C. or wine in general as a possible problem? Or do you see the future as bright? If this issue is behind us, life is going to be good for wine producers.
12:50 p.m.
As an Individual
Actually there's an unnamed troublemaker within the wine industry—notorious. Only one name ever pops up in B.C.. I was talking to him in advance of this. He was saying that he could somewhere down the way more regulations, that we will be regulated more. We seem to be a regulations-driven country.
Right now, it's good times for the wine industry; you're absolutely right. Everybody is trying to expand and move forward. There's a whole new generation discovering wines and craft beers.
We all have a different view of what the future will be. The problem is that we can talk about it until we're blue in the face: wishes, hopes and dreams. The problem is—and I hate to harp on this—that right in front of us is this monolith called the liquor boards. Until such time as they want to open themselves up to new ideas, fresh ideas, new faces, new thoughts, and new processes, it's just a frustration. It's two steps forward and three steps back. I wish I could be a little more positive in that area. I would love to be.
If and when the liquor boards decide they want to change the way they do business and how they approach and treat people, the industry will be ready to step forward. There's been growth now, but if we can just fix this, it will be one of the success stories of Canada. Period. People will come here from other parts of the world to experience our wines.
We certainly can't get our wines to them on a regular basis because we don't make enough. But we will become a wine destination when the word gets out about how good the wines are, how good the bubble is from Benjamin Bridge in the Gaspereau Valley in Nova Scotia; how good the wines are from the limestone of Prince Edward County, from Closson Chase, Norm Hardie, etc.; and Tawse in Niagara, the Speck Brothers and Henry of Pelham. We have stars.
We have wine stars. The wine world is starting to pay attention. This could turn out to be a huge bonus for us in terms of tourist dollars and destination money spent in Canada, if we could just fix this pothole in the road.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Well, thanks. We've certainly heard you today.
Thanks.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Alger, your website uses very original marketing, which targets young people.
Is your brand helping you get back on track?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Pop Shoppe
We recognize the fact that the largest soft drink consumption comes from a younger demographic here in Canada. That's certainly where we market our brands. I think that emphasizes our need to try to be as healthy as we can, because we recognize that those buying our brand are primarily in that younger demographic. That's certainly where we do the majority of our marketing. But we also recognize the fact that we're a fairly well-known brand for an older demographic as well, so they also drive our brand.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC
You say that healthier products should be encouraged. What do you mean by that?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Pop Shoppe
I think there could be some assistance given to us in terms of marketing our products. I don't think it necessarily just boils down to incentives. In terms of procurement or raw materials, I think help, in terms of marketing our brand, would be a great lift to us. As I stated earlier, maybe it's a partnership with large retailers to kind of carve out a section within the retail store that promotes brands that are a little bit healthier than other brands currently offered on that shelf.
As small producers and a small company, we don't have the wherewithal to be able to market that fact. We do it as we can, which is though viral marketing and through our website. These are the methods we're able to use. If we're out doing store sampling events, we're able to promote the fact that we are a little bit healthier, that we are using a more natural sugar than is, say, a Coke or a Pepsi. However, we don't have the marketing budget to be able to really fly that flag to try to gain some market momentum and get some education to the consumer out there.
So if there's a way collectively—not just for Pop Shoppe, but for other brands that want to make that switch as well—to help promote these smaller companies, it will benefit all of us. Doing that, I think it, in turn will wake up the larger producers, who choose not to produce with more natural products simply because doing so is not great for their bottom line.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC
In my riding, Kiri cola seems to have a story similar to yours. The company tried to take advantage of its retro side, since the brand has been known for decades. But the plan did not work, and the plant closed.
What is your opinion on the future of independent soft drink producers?
12:55 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, The Pop Shoppe
I know Kiri. I actually went and met with them at their plant. There was some discussion about having them co-pack our products for us, because they make fantastic products. I think the Kiri brand itself would have survived. Part of their business was co-packing. They were packing for other customers, and I think that was less lucrative for them.
It's difficult. It's a segment of retail that is dominated by two large players, and then there's a handful of small producers out there, such as me. I kind of know my place in that chain. We try to carve out and do as much business as we can being a small producer, but it's difficult when you're up against two large conglomerates that can pretty much do what they want in the market space.
It's difficult. Again, to go back to the point about finding shelf space and stuff, that gets very competitive. We lost our shelf space when Zellers closed, which was unfortunate. We weren't able to get that shelf space back with Target because they had pre-existing relationships with a lot of American companies when they came up here. That reduced the amount of shelf space for us out there. So it's difficult. All we can do is to just keep trying. We run a very fiscally responsible company. That's why, when we make these changes and our costs of raw materials go up, it does hurt our bottom line, but I think it's the right thing to do. That's the only thing I'm looking for. I believe it is a partnership.
Soft drinks have been under the gun for the last number of years. Society has blamed a lot of the overweight and obesity issues on soft drinks in particular, so we've been kind of under attack. But if there's any way to look at something that may be a little bit more alternative—because we all enjoy soft drinks—there are ways to do it.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
I have to intervene here. Thank you.
Mr. Mulligan, do you have a final comment? You have about a minute, if you want to use it.
1 p.m.
As an Individual
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I have just a couple of things, and then I'll get out of your way because I have to go lie on the beach.
1 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
1 p.m.
As an Individual
Some good news is that the new generation of wine drinkers, the 20-somethings, have brought with them amazing responsibility with regard to alcohol. It's quite remarkable what's happening.
Of course, the dark cloud that always hung over wine and liquor was that it was damaging relationships. It was the carnage on the highway. What we're seeing now, and what the restaurants are telling us now, is that people are drinking and eating locally. In other words, they're walking to their restaurant, they're consuming between them a bottle of wine, or having a couple of glasses, and walking home. They're not getting behind the wheel. It's quite remarkable what's happened.
That was an organic process. Nobody legislated that; it happened on its own. We're seeing wines on tap, which is a really cool thing. People can taste small amounts of wine just to see which ones they like.
There are just two things. One is that I can still go to Toronto and go to a certain wine bar on lower Church Street and say to the bartender, “Do you have any of that Riesling from British Columbia?” Like a speakeasy from 1928, that bartender will reach down between his feet and will pull out a long-neck Riesling that everybody is after. There's sort of a bootleg version of 1928 all over again that's kind of goofy in this country.
Finally, just know this: there's an entire industry, a wine industry, that is afraid to speak out and speak up because of the repercussions from doing that. That's not the way we should be running our business, and that's not Canada. If you can help change that, it'll be a high watermark for me, and hopefully for you.
Thank you.
1 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Merv Tweed
With that, thank you to our guests for your input today. It was most enlightening.
Committee, we'll see everyone next Tuesday. Have a nice weekend.
We are adjourned.