On the issue of sunsetting, and not to belabour the point, I understand why one doesn't, based on Mr. Hoback's position and the government's position that this will hopefully enable the players to come to the table and actually get a review.
In my viewpoint, it depends on what stick you want them to come with. Let me be blunt. It was a public meeting when the railroaders came before us a few weeks ago. I don't have a lot of confidence.... It's not to point at my friends down at the end. It was not you. But they were sitting basically at the end of the table like our friends are this morning and they didn't give me the warm and fuzzies that they intended to actually get a deal done. In fact, they were extremely angry, and if I can paraphrase Mr. Mongeau, he basically told us that we should not regulate him, which doesn't lead me to believe that one should put the stick away. In fact, one should get the big stick out, not the little stick.
When someone comes to me and tells me as a parliamentarian that “You don't have the right, sir, to regulate us,” they are in the wrong game, and if you want to check Hansard, that's exactly what I told him. I would tell him that again. I've dealt with players like that across the bargaining table before. You bring the big stick because if you park the big stick, they'll bring theirs, and then you are at a disadvantage. They do not like this, and the reason they don't is that it's the big stick, and they hate it, if I can use that term. That is a harsh term, Mr. Chair, I appreciate that, but they do.
I would suggest that you may want to think about the sunset clause for a few more minutes before you decide to leave it in, because they didn't come to the table with any indication that they intended to sit down and really, truly do a full review that we all think should happen—all of us, quite frankly, literally all of us in this Parliament believe. Consequently, we've all been supportive of this and trying to make it happen as expeditiously as we possibly and humanly can.
I'm afraid if we park the stick in the sense of “let's work together on this”, you may find yourselves looking for one when you're dealing with them. I certainly won't be at the table. The government is going to be doing the review, and the folks in the department are going to be doing a review from transport. Somebody may want to be looking for that stick, and if you've parked it, you're going to have to look for another one. You may want to just keep it in your hip pocket. You don't have to use it, but you always have to have one.
The old adage in Welland is, don't come to a gun fight with a knife. So I would suggest you think about it, just for a second or two, before you say, we'd be happy to entertain a friendly amendment that simply gives you, the government, the option not to sunset this, and just take it away. It's not a big deal. The intent is this shouldn't be there forever. It should be the rail review. That should solve the issue, and then the process should look after itself and we should never have to do this again. I think that's everyone's hope and intent. But I say again, if you go with a little popsicle stick, you might get whacked on the side of the head by somebody with the big stick, and you won't have one to hit them back with.
I simply say that based on the performance of both gentlemen who came from both railroads, so you're going to have to deal with them. They didn't come to us in a conciliatory way. I would suggest you go back and look at Hansard and see exactly what they said. Because they didn't.
That's my only concern. I've heard the response from Pierre, I appreciate that, and from Mr. Langlois, I appreciate that as well, and I feel comfortable. I'm not stuck on the rail review. Let me make that abundantly clear. I'm not going to hang my hat on that. It's not a hill to die on for me. I just suggest it as a cautionary tale, and perhaps you might need the big stick. You just might. If you believe that the railroaders come with honesty and good intentions and intend to fix it this time.... You had one experience last year. I would suggest some of you should think about how you felt that experience was for you, and ask the shippers and the farmers what the experience was for them, and whether they thought it was a good one.
Do you think you're actually going to get a change next time? If you believe it to be true, I guess you park the big stick. If you have doubts, keep the big stick in your holster because you're going to need it come the time when they come to the table, because they are going to come guns ablazing.
Thank you, Chair.