Evidence of meeting #3 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
Practically speaking, they don't export a lot of beef and pork outside of Europe. Is that correct for European farmers?
Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Well, the Danish are world leaders in the export of pork around the world. They're a major competitor of ours in Japan. Kathleen would be mad if I didn't show you. You have probably all seen these products in stores across Canada. They're very good; they're delicious. They're a product of Germany. These products, frozen pizzas, are coming in and they have a lot of meat on them. They're coming into Canada, and they do make some very high quality processed meat products as well. When the deal comes into effect, they will also have 0% access into Canada, as we will there.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley
Thank you, Mr. Atamanenko. I suspect we may hear more about pizzas on another day.
Mr. Harris.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm a newcomer to the committee so I'm playing catch-up with my friends.
I like everything there is to eat about agricultural products, particularly beef and pork. I have some good colleagues here who will teach me about them. I only have a couple of questions.
I see the numbers from Ms. Sullivan of $600 million in beef that we will be exporting. Does that represent the 65,000 tonnes that you mentioned, Mr. Masswohl?
November 5th, 2013 / 4:20 p.m.
Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
If we're going to have access to their market and be able to ship 65,000 tonnes of beef into EU countries and they will have access then to our market for the same products with no tariffs, how much beef can we expect will be coming our way from the EU countries once this agreement is signed? Is it close to what we'll be shipping to them? Is it less, or more?
Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
We expect it will be fairly minimal. Their production is very expensive, and as long as it is not subsidized trade, which would remain illegal and there are tools to deal with that--whether it is subsidized beef or subsidized cheese or subsidized aircraft or subsidized anything, there are mechanisms to deal with that—we would expect it to be fairly minimal.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
As Mr. Laws pointed out, there is unlimited pork, zero tariffs on pork coming in. How much pork is being shipped into Canada now?
Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
I don't have that figure off the top of my head. I have it in my statistics, but it's interesting because when we had a dispute with Europeans, the beef hormone dispute, Canada went to the World Trade Organization and won the dispute, won the right to put on retaliatory tariffs, and one of the items on there was pork; there was a 100% retaliatory tariff on pork. We finally then decided that we weren't going to win that argument so we negotiated access in exchange for removing that. Our pork sector was concerned about what would happen when those retaliatory tariffs came off, but there was not a flood of Danish product into Canada, so that was a relief.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Okay, I'm simply trying to get some idea of these numbers. We're going to be able to ship $400 million in pork exports over there.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
So 81,000 tonnes: would they be shipping that much into Canada at the present time?
Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
No, not by any means. It would be quite a bit less than that, for sure.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Could we anticipate...? Or actually, there's zero tariff on pork for them anyway, sending it here.
Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Absolutely. So nothing would change in that regard.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Okay.
With regard to growth hormones that are used in the North American market, that appears to be an issue with the EU countries. They don't want us to ship any cows that have the growth hormones in them. That will result, I guess, in extra costs for the producers.
Conservative
Dick Harris Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
That quantity of 65,000 tonnes—is it worth it for our producers to produce beef that doesn't have the hormones, for shipping that quantity?
Director, Government and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Yes, certainly. We believe it is.
You know, we leave it to individual cattle producers to make that decision as to whether they think, for their operations, it would make sense. Different producers have different cost structures, or are different sizes, that sort of thing.
We figure we need about 500,000 head of cattle produced each year under the EU protocol—so without the growth promotants—which means that obviously we don't need every producer to decide to do it. We think enough of them will so that the cattle will be there.
Executive Director, Canadian Meat Council
Perhaps to add to that, I would reiterate that I've been told that there are about 500,000 cull beef cows that are not given growth promotants. There are cull dairy cattle, and there are veal animals as well that are never given growth promotants.
So the supply is there. It would be an incredible opportunity for us to take advantage of it. In fact it is quite an opportunity for Canada's dairy industry to get more revenue from some of those cull dairy cattle as well.
Conservative
NDP
Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to thank you for being here at our first meeting where we are hearing from witnesses.
Agriculture is quite diversified in my riding. I'm sure that this free-trade agreement will help agricultural producers and the agri-food industry export their products to Europe. However, until we have all the details on the agreement, I can't say who will benefit from it. Here at home, some businesses will benefit while others will have to adjust. I hope we don't lose any small businesses. Agriculture in the Joliette riding is quite diversified. You can find everything there.
Which businesses do you think will be the big winners and which ones will lose out?
Executive Director, Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance
I can start, and then perhaps James would like to say something. I think particularly in Quebec pork will be a big winner. In terms of the parts that we'll win, if you will, in the agreement, it will be fairly broad-based. I think from a Quebec perspective in particular, some of the perhaps less high-profile industries, certainly maple syrup...and apple production we expect to do well.
In Quebec the hog industry, the pork industry, will probably do quite well. Right now I think 40% of pork exports out of Canada come from Quebec. Since pork is one of the products that will do particularly well in this agreement, we would certainly expect Quebec to be a beneficiary.
A lot of the gain from the agreement, though, will come from processed foods. When you look at food processing in Canada, although it does take place across the country, about 60% of it is shared between Ontario and Quebec. If you think about where those products are being made and their proximity to the EU, I would certainly expect Quebec to have more than its share of gains from the CETA.
There are also nice ripple effects as well. When you think about shipments that are going to Quebec, a lot will come out of the ports. Atlantic Canada and Quebec are very well situated when you think about investment in port infrastructure and the shipments that will come out of those areas.
Another really interesting angle for Quebec is sugar. You have a Lantic sugar refinery in Montreal. I'll be honest with you, the government's ability to gain access into the EU for sugar-containing products really is historic. We never thought we would be able to secure that in this deal. It's a huge accomplishment for that industry, and will be quite beneficial for the sugar refinery in Montreal.