Agriculture Committee on Oct. 7th, 2014

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

I'm sure that Bill will outline this more in the next hour.

It's very important that we as a country that basis our trade on science-based decisions.... There are international groups under the WTO Codex, OIE, and so on, that map out what the science-based rules are, and we tend to try to hold other jurisdictions to those rules. We're making significant changes on low-level presence, gaining momentum on that as we talk about it.

It's very important that Canada recognize the veracity of other countries' science. We do a tremendous amount of trade with the U.S., yet we still have situations where their science takes a product to this level, and when we get it to Canada we like to start over down here. There's no reason not to accept their science and then Canadianize it and do a couple of other things that bring it into our jurisdiction in weather, environment, and those types of things, but not start again at zero because that takes years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Most entities look at the market share in Canada and say that it's not worth their investment, so we don't get access to those cutting-edge materials.

At the same time, we'll bring in an apple with a certain spray on it—now this is getting into PMRA and not CFIA—but we won't let our own guys use it, which makes no sense to me and no sense to the apple producers as well. That's just an example that gives you an idea.

As we work towards the Beyond the Border initiatives, the Regulatory Cooperation Council's, and so on, we'll see much more harmonization along those lines again based on science. It has to be internationally accredited, peer-reviewed science that we would accept and then add a little bit of Canadian to it.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Last winter we had discussions on transportation. One of the arguments was that a lot of money was trapped as far as the farmer was concerned. Advance payment programs were available for individual farmers so they did not have to sell in these areas when the basis was so wide. I wonder if you could elaborate on some of the specifics that are associated with the changes that have taken place in the advance payment program, and how important it is to be able to get the funds into the farmers' hands as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

We did see an uptake last winter, not a huge one, but we did see some uptake when farmers were taking advantage of that cash advance, both in the fall and in the spring. We allowed a farmer to maintain his fall application and still apply for a spring application. Double-dip would be the slang for it.

Having said that, farmers are great. They give you a handshake on what they're going to repay, and they do. There are tremendous underlying values that say they took this on and they're going to pay it back. Farm debt-to-asset ratio has never been better, and we continue to see that expand. Yes, there were some anomalies last year as we saw that basis stretch to the breaking point. The good news in the analysis that we've done is very few farmers were forced to sell. They hung on. They sat on it. They carried it through. We're seeing prices start to stabilize and climb back up again now.

I will be having meetings in the coming weeks with the major grain buyers as to how we don't see that type of a stretch basis again. They were sending that as a market signal that they couldn't move the product, so we don't want to buy it, and if we do, we're going to buy it in a way that we can pay to store it and sit on it ourselves. We've got the logistic systems chugging away on seven of eight cylinders, I would say. They've done a reasonable job. I wouldn't pat anybody on the back just yet because we still have a lot of work to do in moving forward on the whole idea that we need corridor-by-corridor specifics so that we can start to analyze why it takes so long for a car to go to the U.S., the cycle times, and all of these things. We want to make sure what's ordered is what's delivered and not what the railways want to ship.

The most egregious thing I saw last year was almost 58 boats sitting in Vancouver, and one sat there for six weeks waiting for five cars of a specific barley to finish it off, because the railways wouldn't spot the cars. That's ridiculous. We need a lot more data—under Mark Hemmes at Quorum—to make sure that those types of egregious flaunting of rationale never happen again.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.

We will go to Mr. Atamanenko for five minutes, please.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

It's just like old times, Minister. It's good to see you here.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

It's good to see you, Alex.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thanks for being here.

Many have a concern about this bill. Certainly, as you're aware, the National Farmers Union is one of them. They've done extensive research and have flagged certain areas. I'd like you to comment on some of their concerns, because obviously, all of us here want to ensure that the interests of farmers prevail when we introduce legislation.

There's a concern not only from them, but from many across the country, that for example, trade deals in this bill may have negative implications on our sovereignty, on our ability to produce food for ourselves; that they could bring in an unprecedented level of corporate control of agriculture; that changes to the Plant Breeders' Rights Act would give vast new rights to multinational agribusiness companies to dominate the private breeding sector; that CETA's intellectual property rights measures would give them access to powerful new tools to enforce these rights.

Apparently, there are some leaked versions of the CETA text that show Canada has agreed to empower the courts to apply provisional and precautionary measures, which include seizure of assets, destruction of equipment, and freezing of bank accounts against someone suspected of intellectual property rights infringement. That's before a trial takes place. Plant breeders' rights are included among the intellectual property rights covered by these measures.

What measures in Bill C-18 were promised to the EU during the secret negotiations that we held with them? Can you reassure Canadian farmers that they shouldn't be concerned about the issues that I just raised?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Well, the first thing I'd take exception to, Alex, is the reference to secret negotiations. This was the first time in history that the provinces and farm groups were briefed on a daily basis as to what was moving forward, so I don't know how you keep things secret when everybody's briefed.

On this leaked text, it's exactly that. It's a leak. It's a spill. It's something that needs to be cleaned up. It's not factual. There was a lot of myth information put out there as things moved forward. The full text is out there now; the full legal text is there. I would ask that you compare what was leaked and what's fact, and what's been agreed to by Canada and the European Union. If you compare the two, you will see that there are significant differences in what was leaked.

On trade deals, we always retain our sovereignty. We've been able to do that underscored with NAFTA and with a number of the other bilaterals that we've done. This is the largest and most comprehensive deal that's ever been undertaken in Canadian history and in the European precinct as well. They do have free trade agreements with countries like South Korea, and so on, and they're working on others, such as the United States, which isn't going anywhere quickly. Having said that, it's a tremendous opportunity for especially agriculture to take advantage of 500 million more consumers. We look at that as a good thing.

On Bill C-18, there's nothing in it that was directed or dictated so that we conform to that. We don't have to do UPOV 91. We just know after 22 years of discussion it's time that this moved forward. I make no apologies for the timing of this. We're open to discussion. We're open to good amendments, if some are required. I know this committee will do its due diligence.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Thanks, Minister.

You talked about the farmer's ability to save seed. I'm still not clear, so I'd just like some clarification. For example, when storing the saved seed, does the farmer need the permission of the holder of the plant breeders' rights?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

No, because you've entered into a contractual agreement.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Does the breeder have the right to charge royalties as well? Obviously, he does.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Well, it's one or the other. It's either an IP up front or an IP as you sell the seed if you're going to save some. You, as the grower, have the right to decide which type of contract you want.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Would this bill also empower the government to remove, restrict, or limit the farmer's seed-saving privilege by passing regulations, something that can happen quickly and without public debate? I think this is one concern that some people have.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

You know any government of the day can move forward with regulations. I'm not sure why anybody would want to commit suicide like that as a government.

We have tremendous consultations with all of our farm groups across Canada as to what's in their best interest moving forward. That's why we've made the ability for the wheat commissions and the barley commissions to be developed. There's another umbrella group, Cereals Canada, being developed that puts everybody around the table talking about what's in the best interest of all of the value chain, all the way from the farm gate right through to that end user in Japan, if that's where it is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you, Mr. Atamanenko.

Now we'll go to Mr. Hoback, for five minutes please.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Minister Ritz, I just want to get this on the record, because you've said it four times, but let's be very clear. If I have seed that I've grown this year, I can store it. Is that correct?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

If you contracted that seed, absolutely. You can move it around 16 times. You can clean it. You can bag it. You can dump the bags out. You can do whatever you want. It's yours until you sell. it.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Excellent.

Minister, one of the things I think we better talk about in this bill is animal welfare. This government takes animal welfare very seriously. We need to modernize that and I see that you've done that in this piece of legislation. I'll read out some of the things you're doing. The maximum penalty amounts for businesses are proposed to increase from $2,000 for a minor violation, $10,000 for a serious violation, and $15,000 for a very serious violation to $5,000, $10,000 and $25,000 respectively.

Can you give us an idea of what you're doing to crack down on inhumane handling of and cruelty to animals?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

There's a big debate out there as to what constitutes inhumane handling and what is accepted husbandry practices. I know there are lots of “gotcha” films out there and so on. Having said that, no one has a toleration for animal mistreatment. There are different levels of that. That's why there's a graduated scale. CFIA has the powers, if they're on site. I know a lot of this is provincially regulated and CFIA is not even there, but at the end of the day, they have the ability now to work with the SPCAs, with the provincially regulated bodies, and so on, in order to come forward with charges, should they be warranted.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

There's one thing you did this last year, Minister, and I'd be missing a prime opportunity to say thank you. That's for the role you served last winter in getting the railways to step up to the plate and move some grain. I know my colleagues and my constituents really needed you to do that, and you stepped up and did it with a very balanced approach. You did it in such a way that you weren't impacting any other sectors. You were focusing on making sure that the grain moved.

One of the things that you've done now with the AMPA changes was something that was flagged last year when we had the shortage...or port move to grain. We had guys that sold, for example, peas and canola and had cash from that. They could have paid back their wheat advance, but because of the old rules they couldn't. Could you explain that in a little more detail and how that's going to work now?

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

Farmers are big businessmen. They grow a multiplicity of different crops and now with the changes what we're talking about you go to one administrator for your cash advances across the board. If you have five different entities that qualify, you go to one administrator, not five. It's much easier to administer. At the same time, there has always been a problem. You could never do it under the Wheat Board because they owned the grain. Now that the farmer owns that grain sitting in his bin in the field, wherever it happens to be, he can decide when to sell that grain. We're not going to have him forced to sell that grain to pay back that cash advance within the timeframe. He's now able to sell his canola instead, his cattle instead, whatever. He can make his marketing decisions based on what's in his best interest, not on a timeframe to repay that loan.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

The days of dumping durum on the open market just to pay back a cash transfer—

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

They're gone. Gone.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That's interesting.

[Gerry Ritz, Conservative, Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK]

We saw that underscored last year with the basis stretch. We expanded the ability of a farmer to take an advance in the fall and the spring and be able to weather that storm and not be forced to dump at that stretch basis price.