Evidence of meeting #40 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was varieties.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brent Preston  Proprietor, The New Farm
Patty Townsend  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Seed Trade Association
Erin Armstrong  Director, Research and Product Development, Canterra Seeds
Archie Wilson  General Manager, C&M Seeds
Mark Huston  Vice-Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario
Gary Stanford  President, Grain Growers of Canada
Levi Wood  President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association
Victor Santacruz  Executive Director, Canadian Nursery Landscape Association
Jennifer Pfenning  Chair, Organic Council of Ontario
Rick Bergmann  Vice-Chair, Canadian Pork Council

11 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Ladies and gentlemen, as we move forward in our study of Bill C-18, better known as the agriculture growth act, first of all, let me thank each and every one of you on our committee for the talks and discussions that we have had.

On Thursday, as you know, committee was adjourned, and we're back today. We also have had discussions with a number of our witnesses.

I want to say thank you to all of our witnesses who have been on the docket for working with our committee to make sure we get the input that we need, not only from the individuals, but from many of those who come through their umbrella group. I just want to say thank you to each and every one of them.

As we have gone through a bit of a trying time obviously, not just with each of us as an individual but as Canada, I am so proud that we have come out of this stronger and better. We will continue on with the daily duties that we have.

With this, if I don't mess it up, we have with us by video conference from Lethbridge, Gary Stanford, Grain Growers of Canada, and from Barrie, Brent Preston, The New Farm. Brent, thank you.

We have a couple of empty chairs that will be filled when people come in. I'll introduce them when they come.

I also want to make sure that we introduce the people at our head table today. They are Patty Townsend from the Canadian Seed Trade Association. Thank you, Patty, for coming. We have Erin Armstrong from Canterra Seeds. Welcome, Erin. From C&M Seeds, we have Archie Wilson.

With that, folks, we're going to start. Video is always great, but we're going to start with them just in case there's a glitch.

With that, I will go to Mr. Brent Preston, The New Farm, from Barrie.

Brent, you have six minutes, please.

11 a.m.

Brent Preston Proprietor, The New Farm

Chair, and all honourable members, thank you very much for inviting me to speak today.

My name is Brent Preston. My wife Gillian and I run the New Farm, a certified organic family farm near the village of Creemore, about an hour and a half northwest of Toronto. We grow vegetables for the restaurant and specialty retail market in southern Ontario.

I must confess that your invitation to testify today came as a bit of a surprise. I'm glad that you're hearing from a diversity of voices when considering Bill C-18, because when I look at the kinds of farms represented by many of the others testifying today, our farm is very different.

Ten years ago my wife and I left our jobs in Toronto and headed to Creemore to start a farm. Gillian grew up on a farm in Vermont, but I was raised in suburban Toronto and had no agricultural experience at all. As newcomers to farming we took a hard, objective look at the agriculture industry and it was pretty clear to us back then that the industry in Canada was broken. We realized quickly that our farm would have to be different if we wanted to create a successful business.

We saw an agricultural system dominated by commodity production for the export market where Canadian farmers were forced to compete with growers in countries with better climates, lower labour and environmental standards, and bigger government subsidies, so we decided to focus on the local market.

We saw farmers at the mercy of buyers, either at the elevator or at the food terminal, where price was set far beyond our borders and price was the only way to distinguish a product, so we set our prices based on actual cost of production and competed on quality, freshness, and taste. If we couldn't sell a product at a fair price, we would and often still do turn it under in the field.

We saw a seed market that was increasingly dominated by huge multinational corporations focused on producing fewer and fewer varieties bred for ease of handling or pesticide tolerance, so we sought out old open-source varieties that were bred for taste and adaptability.

We saw an agriculture industry where everyone except farmers seemed to be making money, where the cost of land, inputs, and machinery made entering the farming business almost impossible, and where average net farm incomes were actually negative. We started small, used low-input organic methods, did almost everything by hand, and focused on profitability rather than growing our gross sales.

We saw a farm community that was shrinking rapidly, where fewer and fewer farmers were managing larger and larger farms, so we joined the Collaborative Regional Alliance for Farmer Training, or CRAFT, a completely farmer-run alliance of small organic farms that provides full-season apprenticeships for aspiring farmers. We have so far trained over 20 young people on our farm, none of whom came from a farm background.

The first few years were a struggle. We lost money. We had to work off-farm to pay the bills. The physical toil of the work was brutal. But now, 10 years later, I think our decision to be different has paid off. Our business is profitable. My wife Gillian and I both work full-time year round on the farm. We employ six full-time seasonal staff, and we can't meet the demand for our products.

At the same time, the problems with Canadian agriculture that we identified 10 years ago have only gotten worse. We now have fewer farmers in greater debt, struggling to compete on a global stage dominated by gigantic corporations.

That brings us back to Bill C-18. It seems to me that when our agricultural system isn't working for most farmers we should be looking for something different to fix it, but Bill C-18 is more of the same. It increases the power of large corporations in relation to family farms. It increasingly ties Canadian agriculture into a globalized, price-based commodity market. It encourages the long-term trend toward bigger farms and fewer farmers.

I don't think the sky will fall if Bill C-18 is passed, but it will be one more incremental step in a policy march that I think is failing Canadian agriculture.

What is the alternative? Bill C-18 is called the agricultural growth act. Imagine for a minute if each of you, as a member of this committee, sat down in your constituency with a group of farmers and people interested in food policy and said to them, “The government wants to write an agricultural growth act. What do you think should be in it?” Do you honestly think that anyone would speak up and say to bring Canadian law into conformity with UPOV 91? Would someone put up their hand and say, “Why don't we make it easier for foreign corporations to access farm credit programs underwritten by Canadian taxpayers?” It seems unlikely.

I can think of many things the Canadian government could do to promote agricultural growth, none of which are in Bill C-18. Why not look at ways to grow the number of farmers? We could give tax credits to farms that offer apprenticeship programs, support agricultural incubators like the one run by FarmStart,just outside Toronto, or work with marketing boards to reduce barriers to entry for new producers of supply-managed commodities.

Why not adopt policies that grow demand for local food? We could create buy local policies for federal departments and publicly funded institutions. Imagine if military bases, prisons, research agencies, and universities were all building relationships with local food producers and distributors pumping food dollars back into the local economy.

We could consider labour and environmental standards when negotiating international trade deals so that Canadian farmers are no longer put at a competitive disadvantage when they pay their workers fairly, or act as responsible stewards of the land.

Growth should be measured in more than just gross dollar output. Canadian farmers should be seen as more than just consumers of inputs and suppliers of cheap raw materials for the food industry.

We need profitable family farms to keep rural communities vibrant and alive, to safeguard our precious agricultural and environmental resources, and to meet the exploding demand for local food that we're seeing all across Canada.

Bill C-18 is simply the status quo, in my opinion. We need something different.

Thank you very much.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much for your intervention.

Because we are waiting for a couple of people to show up for the video conference, I'll now go to the Canadian Seed Trade Association. I believe the three of you are going to speak.

You have two minutes each, please.

11:05 a.m.

Patty Townsend Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Seed Trade Association

I'll start off. If I speak too quickly, interpreters, please wave your arms at me, because I have been accused of doing that before. I have only two minutes, so you have to listen fast.

We're sharing our time with two of our members, C&M Seeds and Canterra Seeds.

I would just like to say I'm very happy to be here, and I'm very pleased that you made accommodations to bring us in, when we were scheduled for last week. We did provide a very detailed submission in both official languages. I'm just going to make some really brief comments, and then I'll turn it over to Erin and Archie.

Bill C-18 is very important for the seed sector and the seed sector is very important to Canada. Seed is the foundation for Canada's innovative agricultural sector, delivering increased productivity and market opportunities for farmers, and healthy, affordable fibre, fuel, and food for Canadians.

The Canadian Seed Trade Association brings together 130 seed company members that are involved in all aspects of seed from research, plant breeding, trait and variety development, to production, marketing, sales, and international trade. I must add that we also have members that are single farm family seed producer retailers. We have organic seed producers and users of organic seed, and yes, we do represent the large multinationals and everything in between.

CSTA welcomes the provisions in Bill C-18. Amendments to the Seeds Act to allow for incorporation by reference and to accept science-based data generated in other countries in approval systems could help to ensure that our farmers have access to new varieties in a more efficient and timely manner, and we support those provisions.

I would like, however, to focus on the bill's proposed amendments to plant breeders' rights. We have shown over and over again that where our members can generate a return and recover their costs in research and plant breeding, we do invest. In fact, in 2012 our members invested over $110 million in plant breeding and variety development in Canada.

Most of that investment, however, close to 90%, came in three crops: canola, corn, and soybeans. That's where our breeders can generate a return, because they can use a variety of intellectual property protection tools to generate funds for investment. Breeders of crops like cereals and flax, pulse crops, and special crops have access to plant breeders' rights only to protect their varieties.

Due to our outdated plant breeders' rights legislation, companies with an interest in these crops have chosen to invest elsewhere. Added to that is the fact that plant breeders outside of our borders won't send their varieties here for testing, because our plant breeders' rights legislation has not kept pace with the rest of the world.

I'd like to turn to my colleagues now, because they are the ones who are actually experiencing the impacts of outdated plant breeders' rights legislation.

11:10 a.m.

Dr. Erin Armstrong Director, Research and Product Development, Canterra Seeds

Thank you.

On behalf of Canterra Seeds I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to comment on Bill C-18 and specifically the sections dealing with UPOV 91, and the importance of this legislation for creating an environment that will attract new investment in initiatives that will lead to greater innovation and increased opportunity for Canadian farmers.

I'm Erin Armstrong. I'm the director of industry and regulatory affairs for Canterra Seeds. We're a seed company based in Winnipeg, focused on providing pedigreed seed for field crops in western Canada.

Canterra Seeds was established by seed growers 18 years ago. Today we're owned by more than 200 shareholders, and the majority of them are pedigreed seed growers and independent ag retailers across western Canada. Our seed genetics continue to be sourced primarily from public breeding programs in Canada.

We also run a field program across western Canada to evaluate material from international breeding partners. These varieties provide new opportunities for western Canadian farmers in the form of diverse genetics they would not otherwise be able to access if they were solely dependent on western Canadian public breeding programs.

Having said that, our access is limited due to the concerns that Canada's Plant Breeders' Rights Act is not compliant with UPOV 91.

I'd like to give you two examples of the impact on our company. First, within days of Minister Ritz's introduction of Bill C-18 last December, I received a call from a European breeding company representative that we've known for many years. The conversation opened with him stating, “Now that Canada is finally getting its act together, we want to send you some material to look at”. This past growing season, 2014, we included material from this program for the first time. This is an opportunity that was not available to us prior to Bill C-18 being introduced. This partner is now confident that if we do commercialize varieties from their program in Canada, they will be able to protect and be compensated for the use of their intellectual property. Should Bill C-18 not be passed, we will lose this partner.

There is no doubt that there are also other new potential partners that we could be working with when UPOV 91 is in place.

As a second example, we've been working on expanding our collaboration with another one of our cereal breeding partners over the past couple of years. Our program has grown significantly and it will grow even more significantly when Bill C-18 is passed into law and our PBR Act is updated. We've been working towards this growth in a very deliberate manner, but executing the plan that we have developed is completely dependent upon the passage of Bill C-18 and UPOV 91 being implemented in Canada.

This initiative will involve a significant investment and the development of a new stream of material for the ultimate benefit of the farmers in western Canada. The bottom line is that passing Bill C-18 and updating our Plant Breeders' Rights Act to the terms of UPOV 91 will create an environment that will attract investment and will result in new tools, technologies, resources, and germplasm. This in turn will benefit directly the farmers and enable them to grow internationally competitive crops.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you.

Now Mr. Wilson, and please keep it very short, please.

11:10 a.m.

Archie Wilson General Manager, C&M Seeds

Thank you.

I'm the general manager of C&M Seeds. It's a family-owned business outside of Palmerston, Ontario. We're the third generation working within this business. We have been very innovative in bringing to Ontario farmers new classes of wheat: hard red winter, soft red winter, hard red spring, and hard white winter. That innovation came from us looking at new opportunities and being able to access them.

C&M Seeds operates an extensive research program to test all potential genetics for agronomic suitability and end-use functionality. We don't operate a breeding program, and therefore we are dependent on breeding programs from around the world to offer us lines for testing.

The current status of UPOV 91 is hurting us, hurting our efforts. lt makes it tough for us to recoup our investment in research and market development, and it reduces international breeders' confidence that they will have a chance to be fairly rewarded for any genetics they allow us to bring to market in Canada. We have had the experience where international breeding programs have agreed to send us materials for testing only to have them decide against that after looking up Canada's status on where we sit on UPOV 91. For a small independent working in Ontario, or in Canada in general, that's very disheartening. We need that access.

As well as being the general manager for C&M Seeds, I also represent Canada at the International Seed Federation, serving on both the board of directors and the field crop section board. I'll be honest; it's embarrassing when the topic of UPOV 91 is discussed and Canada is mentioned as one of only a few developed countries that are not part of the most recent convention of 1991. With over 60 countries compliant, including the likes of Oman, Azerbaijan, Macedonia, and Albania, Canada's absence is extremely noticeable and embarrassing.

Last week I was at the International Seed Federation meetings in Holland and was asked numerous times about the status of Bill C-18. The world is watching this one. Bill C-18's amendments to plant breeders' rights included in the agricultural growth act are important to Canada's innovation agenda. Passing this legislation will make Canada a more attractive place to invest in plant breeding and variety development, bringing new and more productive varieties to Canadian farmers. Breeders and seed companies like C&M will invest when the environment is created to encourage this investment.

Please continue to move Bill C-18 forward for the benefit of Canadian agriculture. lt is clear to me that Canada's current position on UPOV 91 is costing not only seed companies like ourselves opportunities for better genetics, but it's also costing Canadian farmers opportunities for better crop performance and profitability.

I travelled across the province to speak for two minutes, during this busy harvest season, because of the importance of this bill. Please have the courage to move forward on it.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

We'll now go to Guelph and to Mark Huston from Grain Farmers of Ontario.

Welcome, Mark.

11:15 a.m.

Mark Huston Vice-Chair, Grain Farmers of Ontario

Thanks for having me.

My name is Mark Huston, and I'm a corn and soybean farmer. I also grow wheat in Ontario. I'm also a director for Grain Farmers of Ontario.

My organization and I support the proposed amendments to Canada's plant breeders' rights legislation to bring it into compliance with the most recent international convention, UPOV 91.

Ontario's grain farmers need access to new and improved varieties to stay competitive in the domestic and international markets. Canada needs to be recognized as a positive business environment to attract private investment and research and development on variety in grains.

Updated plant breeders' rights legislation increases that investment and results in the delivery of new varieties from breeders operating both inside and outside of Canada. Plant breeders' rights are important to stimulate investment into the development of improved varieties for the crops we grow, including corn, soybeans, and wheat. This is particularly important in the cereal sector for which we don't have the patented traits in the marketplace.

The proposed amendments will encourage all plant breeders, big, small, private and public, international and domestic, to invest in the development of new varieties for Canadian farmers.

We know that plant breeders' rights are of particular importance to public institutions like Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, provincial governments, and universities as the majority of applications come from these areas. We believe it's important to have these rights to protect and encourage researchers as they conduct important research on crops specific to our own environmental challenges and opportunities.

Canada's proposed plant breeders' rights legislation will also ensure that farmers can save the grain they produce to use as seeds on their own farm. It is important to clarify that plant breeders' rights are not patents. Unlike patents, plant breeders' rights make it mandatory for breeders to make their protected varieties available for use by other breeders for research and for development of new varieties.

Also unlike patents, Canada's proposed plant breeders' rights legislation will ensure that farmers can save the grain they produce to use as seeds on their own farms. Our current legislation doesn't say anything about saving grain of protected varieties to use as seed. The new legislation clearly spells it out and says that farmers don't need the authority of the breeder to produce, reproduce, and condition grain of protected varieties to use as seed on their own farms. Because that right is entrenched in legislation, it can't be taken away without a legislative change.

Our organization is not alone in actively supporting updated plant breeders' rights and not alone in seeing the importance and benefits of them. We are a participant in the Partners in Innovation coalition, which is an informal coalition of 20 provincial, regional, and national organizations from across Canada along the value chain of grains, oilseeds, pulse crops, fruits, and vegetables.

Grain Farmers of Ontario and I as an active grain farmer support the move to become compliant with UPOV 91, and appreciate the continued effort to move this forward. It's important for our industry and to our farmers to remain competitive and to have access to the best science.

Thank you for your time.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Huston.

We'll now move to Lethbridge and Gary Stanford from Grain Growers of Canada, and then to Regina and Levi Wood from Western Canadian Wheat Growers, both by video conference.

Each of you has three minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Gary Stanford President, Grain Growers of Canada

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and committee members.

My name is Gary Stanford. I am the president of the Grain Growers of Canada. I will be sharing my time with Levi Wood, from the Western Canadian Wheat Growers.

Thank you for inviting me to speak today about Bill C-18, the agricultural growth act.

Grain Growers of Canada provides a strong national voice for over 50,000 active and successful grain farmers of pulse, oilseeds, and grain through its 14 provincial and regional groups from across Canada, from British Columbia to Atlantic Canada.

The agriculture and agrifood industry is a significant contributor to the Canadian economy. ln 2012 it accounted for 6.7% of Canada's GDP. The sector's continued success includes grain and oilseed producers, and is contingent upon the ability of farmers to access and utilize new and innovative technology.

The proposed amendments in Bill C-18 to the Plant Breeders' Rights Act will align Canada's legislation with UPOV 91. This is important for ensuring Canada's farmers have access to the newest seed varieties to remain competitive with their international counterparts.

We expect a number of benefits will arise from the proposed changes to the Plant Breeders' Rights Act as highlighted in Bill C-18. First, it will create a regulatory environment that will encourage investment and initiative in the development of new varieties. Just as patents give inventors the ability to recapture their investment, plant breeders' rights give seed developers the ability to recapture their investment.

Amending the Plant Breeders' Rights Act to comply with UPOV 91 will help pave the way for much greater investment in the development of new seed varieties that will deliver higher yields and better economics for Canadian farmers.

ln the case of cereals, more than half of the varieties protected under the current Plant Breeders' Rights Act were developed at public institutions, such as universities, provincial governments, and Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada. This legislation does not take away any of that. What it does is it creates a regulatory environment that will increase research investment dollars by private companies, especially as it pertains to investment in new cereal varieties.

The commitment by the government and the introduction of Bill C-18 will clearly signal to private companies that Canada is open for investment. We have already seen the positive effects from the proposed changes. Bayer CropScience recently broke ground on a new state-of-the-art facility south of Saskatoon.

The adoption of Bill C-18 will bring our regulations in line with international standards. Canada is only one of a handful of developed countries not covered under UPOV 91. This keeps our farmers out of competitive advantage. Aligning our regulations will not only level the playing field for our producers, but it will also encourage foreign investment into new varieties for Canada. This would give our farmers access to new varieties that their competitors already use.

lt is important to note that Bill C-18 enshrines the ability of farmers to save their old seed. Canada's farmers have always been able to save seed, but it was never guaranteed under the legislation. This legislation changes that. The farmers will have the ability to save seed from any variety, including those protected by a plant breeder's right, unless a farmer chooses to waive that right.

I also want to take a moment to talk about the cash advance under Bill C-18.

The Grain Growers welcome these changes as they reduce the administrative burden on farmers obtaining their cash advances and increase the overall value of the program. The proposed amendments will create a one-stop shop, simplifying the process by giving farmers the ability to obtain their advance through the administrator, allowing for multi-year advance repayment agreements, flexible under repayment, broadened eligibility requirements, and enhanced security options for positive changes.

If there is an opportunity to increase the cap on the advance from $400,000, we feel this would further enhance the value of the program.

ln closing, we urge the committee to pass Bill C-18. With the world's population expected to reach 10 billion by 2050, Canada's grain producers will need the most innovative technology and the newest varieties in order to maximize production and minimize environmental impacts. Bringing plant breeders' rights legislation up to date will encourage investment in new varieties and will ensure Canadian farmers are well positioned for growth in the future.

Thank you for letting me speak on this issue. I look forward to your questions.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much.

Mr. Wood, for two minutes, please. Welcome.

11:25 a.m.

Levi Wood President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association

Thank you very much for your time today.

My name is Levi Wood, I am president of the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association. I also farm at Pense, Saskatchewan, which is just outside of Regina.

I'd like to reinforce the comments made by Gary Stanford. In our view, and in our membership's view, the key benefit of C-18 is it will give us more crop varieties to choose from. Breeders in Canada, both private and public, will be able to draw on genetics from around the world. That will give us access to new varieties that can help increase our yields and grow our on-farm profitability. The legislation will not take choices away but rather will give us more. Let me explain.

Currently there are 78 different varieties of wheat eligible for acceptance into the top milling class in western Canada. I can choose any one of those 78 varieties to grow on my farm today. Of those 78 registered varieties, more than half of them, 41 to be exact, are not currently protected by plant breeders' rights. These are in the public domain. That means I'm free to grow them without paying a royalty of any kind. The oldest registered variety dates back to 1935. Occasionally a variety will be deregistered, usually if it no longer meets the quality standards, but we fully expect the majority of these varieties will continue to be available. Currently, the vast majority of wheat varieties grown in Canada were developed at public institutions. This new legislation doesn't take away any of those varieties. What this legislation does is it helps create a business environment that will allow seed developers, large and small, Canadian and foreign, invest more heavily in wheat breeding in Canada. For me, that means a greater opportunity to access varieties that will increase ultimately the profitability of our farm.

Newer varieties are often protected by plant breeders' rights for a period of up to 18 years. This will be extended to 20 years under Bill C-18. I pay a royalty any time I purchase a seed variety that is protected by plant breeders' rights. However, as a rule I can reuse those seeds as many times as I like. It's no different from downloading a song on iTunes. Once I pay my 99¢ I can listen to it as much as I like. I can't copy and give or sell that song to anyone else, but I'm allowed to play it as much as I like. New seed varieties that are protected by plant breeders' rights are protected in the same way. I pay a royalty the first time I purchase it, but I can replant it on my farm as many times as I like without paying that royalty again.

In our view, and in our membership's view, Bill C-18 gives us the best of both worlds. It continues to give us the ability to use existing tried and true varieties. It also gives us the greater ability to access new varieties, which we need on our farm. Every farmer will be free to choose those varieties that work best for their farm operation and for their own business. For this reason, the Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association urges you to give this legislation your full support.

Thank you for your invitation today. I look forward to your questions.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Wood.

Now we'll go to our committee. I want to welcome Mr. Rousseau for the first time to the agriculture committee.

You have five minutes, please.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Allow me to make a comment to the analysts, and to you, Mr. Chairman, as well as to the committee clerk. It seems to me that we have displayed a lack of respect for farming, as well as for farmers and for the witnesses here today by inviting 10 witnesses to present their perspectives on Bill C-18, which is an important bill for the Canadian economy. Regardless of how this came about, we are being disrespectful. The meeting started 30 minutes ago and we are only now able to start asking questions.

My first question is for Mr. Wood.

In the current context, is it possible for small-scale grain producers to do research and to finance it as Bill C-18 proposes?

11:30 a.m.

President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association

Levi Wood

I'm sorry, just for clarification, do you mean for farmers to do it?

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Yes, whether or not it is by producers or through their businesses. Are small producers able to do the research and to fund this research on grains?

11:30 a.m.

President, Western Canadian Wheat Growers Association

Levi Wood

Yes, that's a good question.

For the most part, farmers themselves aren't the ones necessarily doing this research, especially around the breeding and the variety trials. What you're seeing, I think, is that it has essentially been a combination of public research and what C-18 will bring as more of an investment climate for private research as well. I believe that private research could come from a variety of sources, including many of the commissions and stuff that exists. It's not necessarily something that's happening on a farm, one farmer necessarily developing a variety; it's happening at a more macro level.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Thank you very much.

I now have a question for Ms. Townsend.

You mentioned that investments in research and development were not very diversified. You said that research and development investment was going into only three types of crops.

Could you give us more detail on this issue?

11:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Seed Trade Association

Patty Townsend

As you know, as the private sector, we need to generate a return on the investments that we make in plant breeding and research. The only crops right now where we can generate that return are those that have other intellectual property tools available to them, like contracts, hybrids—which aren't really intellectual property tools, but do require that you purchase seed every year—and patents on traits. Those are the ones that are getting the investment now. I'll give you a really quick example if you'll allow me.

There was a variety of wheat that was developed in Ontario. It took almost 10 years to develop that, to bring that variety to the market. It cost $1 million, and they never, ever generated the investment in plant breeding.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Would Bill C-18 help move that?

11:30 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Seed Trade Association

Patty Townsend

Yes, Bill C-18 will give the breeders additional tools to protect their intellectual property and allow them to recover more of their investment.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

How much more time? I have two minutes. Okay.

I now have a question for Mr. Preston.

Earlier you mentioned that Bill C-18, An Act to amend certain Acts relating to agriculture and agri-food is primarily meant for the biggest producers. As a result, fewer farmers across Canada will participate in this effort.

Furthermore, we see a growing demand on the world market for organic products. I do not believe that Bill C-18 adresses this issue very much.

Could you please elaborate on this?

11:30 a.m.

Proprietor, The New Farm

Brent Preston

Sure, thank you very much.

I think that at past hearings you've heard from representatives of the organic industry, and in the next hour you will as well. I think that they'll be able to speak to that.

My main point is that I see Bill C-18 as a missed opportunity. It's focusing on issues like plant breeders' rights and protecting intellectual property, which are going to have virtually no impact on my operation and operations like mine that are small scale and geared to the local market. It's really not going to have any discernible impact.

Most of the varieties that I use are old heritage varieties some of which were developed more than 100 years ago. The diversity of vegetable seed that was available 50 years ago was much greater than it is now after decades of increasing protection of intellectual property in this area. I don't see that protecting the property rights of plant breeders and large corporations is going to do anything to increase my access to new varieties, because all of the research and development is going into fewer and fewer crops. There may be lots of varieties of wheat available, lots of varieties of soy being developed, but most of those are being developed so that they can accept pesticides so that they work well under an industrial system of agriculture, which is not the sort of agriculture that I'm practising. I just think there are so many other things we could do as a farm community, as a community of people interested in food policy, to promote agricultural growth, but I don't see it in this bill.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much.

I'll go to Mr. Lemieux, for five minutes, please.