Agriculture Committee on Oct. 28th, 2014

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you to each of our witnesses for being here today.

Certainly one of the objections we've been reading about and hearing about at committee is that somehow Bill C-18 benefits large multinational corporations who seek to dominate and crush Canadian agriculture. It's easy to say Monsanto; that's one that comes to mind, but we have here today Canterra Seeds and C&M Seeds.

Archie, I think I heard you say that C&M Seeds is a family-owned business. It's third generation. Do you fall into the large multinational corporation group?

[Archie Wilson]

It would have to be an awfully big group if we fell into that one. No, we don't.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Will your company benefit from Bill C-18?

[Archie Wilson]

Absolutely.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Will your customers benefit from Bill C-18?

[Archie Wilson]

Absolutely. Canadian agriculture will benefit from Bill C-18.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Right, and let me just ask the same questions of Erin.

Erin, you mentioned that you're based in Winnipeg. The company was founded 18 years ago and has 200 shareholders. Do you put yourself into the large multinational corporation status?

[Dr. Erin Armstrong]

No, we're not. We're western Canadian based. The majority of the ownership is western Canadian seed growers and agriculture retailers. We're focused on western Canadian agriculture.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Right. You mentioned there are 200 shareholders. Of those 200 shareholders, do you feel that they support Bill C-18 and what it's going to offer to them, but also to the clients who are buying your products?

[Dr. Erin Armstrong]

Yes. The reason we have a field program is the small number of seed growers who established the company 18 years ago wanted additional sources of varieties beyond what they were able to source from the public programs. We do draw from public programs, but they wanted more.

Our program has grown and we continue to plan to grow it. They recognized the need for us to be able to protect varieties that come out of our program as we move forward.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

Patty, let me ask you a question. You mentioned that you represent 130 seed trade members at the CSTA. Could you give us a cross-section of the members, of small independents versus pan-Canadian versus large multinational members?

[Patty Townsend]

Sure. We have five multinational company members of CSTA, so that's five of the 130. Fifty-three per cent of our votes are small independent seed grower retailers and the remaining are those in the middle. I would consider Archie and Erin to be in the middle.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Could you give us some indication of what you've been hearing from your members about Bill C-18?

[Patty Townsend]

For more than 22 years this has been a high priority, a top priority for all of our members. We even have members that are part of public breeding programs at universities that realize this is an extremely important piece of legislation and amendments to plant breeders' rights, because they are all finding that this investment just isn't going to Canada, either domestic or international investment, in crops other than corn, canola and soybeans.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I heard you mention in your comments that some of your members are in the organic sector. I'd like to ask a question or two about organics. We had some witnesses here before on organics. We're going to have some in the next hour or so and I'll have a chance to ask them as well.

I would think any kind of protection that's offered to seed research and development is good because that too can benefit the organic sector. It doesn't have to be GM. It can be non-GM varietal development which would be of benefit to the organic sector. The way I see it, although the organic sector is small, certainly it's growing. Canadians are seeking organic products. I just see this actually as not a neutral type of legislation regarding the organic sector. I see this as actually helping the organic sector.

I'm wondering if you could comment on that. Also, could you perhaps comment again on what you're hearing from your membership who are involved in the organic sector?

[Patty Townsend]

We do have members in the organic sector. Most of them are in forage and grass seeds and there is not a lot of investment in plant breeding in forages and grasses right now. There are a lot of problems that aren't just plant breeders' rights problems, but anything that can give them access to varieties that can allow them to produce organic seed in a cost-effective manner would benefit them.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'll stop there. Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Eyking, for five minutes, please.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I thank the guests for coming and presenting their briefs as quickly as they could because we don't have much time here this morning. I have a few questions.

My first question is for Mr. Stanford. I think you mentioned that one part of this bill is dealing with advance payments. I think up to $400,000 is what we have there. You're stating that it's not enough, and many witnesses before have stated that it's not enough.

If there was an amendment put forward that would increase it to $600,000, would that be something beneficial to most farmers?

[Gary Stanford]

As the farms get larger and larger and the inputs—fertilizer, fuel, machinery, all of our inputs—get so expensive, we need to have some way of accessing larger amounts of money for cash advances. The $100,000 beginning part of the cash advance is very important for my boys who are young farmers starting out with the interest-free portion and so we really appreciate that.

As the the farms get larger, farmers need to borrow the money to get them through the summer. This cash advance program is very important. Right now the Grain Growers of Canada doesn't really have a limit set on it, whether it be $600,000 or $700,000. We're just saying that as the farms get larger and as we have more input costs with expenses, it would be advisable to make it higher.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you.

Erin, you mentioned how this bill opens doors to seed production and new varieties. You used the example that Europe is knocking on your door already.

How does this new legislation position us as a seed producer, technically, for exporting, say, to the United States, Australia, or other countries? We could come up with varieties. Does it set us up pretty well as an exporter of seed?

[Dr. Erin Armstrong]

That's a very interesting question.

First, we don't export, but anything that is going to protect the intellectual property of breeders wherever a variety is developed and wherever it ends up going, I think is going to be beneficial to those programs in continuing to generate those varieties. It depends on the protection in the country where it's going as well. That's why Canada right now is at a disadvantage because we have problems bringing things here from jurisdictions that have a higher level of protection. If we matched that level of protection, that would put us on an even footing.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you.

Brent, one big part of your presentation states there's not much in this bill for you and for smaller farmers and organic farms. You mentioned the status quo. My feeling is you're not exactly against this bill so much as there's nothing in it for small farmers. Do you think governments or our committee should be looking at something more for small farms, working with departments, supply management, and retailers to help small farmers?

[Brent Preston]

Yes, thanks. Absolutely. I think when we look at the role that farms and farmers play in our society, urban Canadians have never been more interested in food, in connecting with the people who produce their food. We're seeing small towns dying all over rural Canada. We're losing schools and hockey leagues because fewer and fewer people are in the business of farming.

When you look at the big picture in agriculture and you want to promote agricultural growth in Canada, you want to have more farmers. If we continue on the trend we've been on for the past 30 to 40 years, we're going to be in crisis, just in terms of having people to do this work. We see lots of people who are interested in coming into farming from non-farming backgrounds. The main reason they don't do it is that they can't make money at it. I think we need to take a comprehensive look at how to make farming on a smaller scale, the family farm model, viable again in Canada, because increasingly it's not viable. I don't think any of us are looking for subsidies or handouts. We just want the market conditions that allow us to compete.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bev Shipley]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Payne. for five minutes, please.