Evidence of meeting #56 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was onions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Malcolm Allen
Let me officially gavel this meeting to order. This is meeting number 56 of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food on March 24, 2015.
We'll give you a few minutes to catch your breath, Mr. Verkaik. You've been scooting between buildings or different rooms.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Malcolm Allen
You are our lone witness today. Normally we would allow you 10 minutes to make the first presentation. Then there will be a series of questions from the members. By all means, Mr. Verkaik, go ahead.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Thank you so much. This is my first time with something like this. I'm newly appointed to the Ontario Fruit and Vegetables Growers' Association as chair.
Today I guess we're discussing interprovincial trade barriers. Is that correct?
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Some of the challenges in the industry that we're facing are from one province to another. If one province has an excess of vegetables, let's say, they will bring it to another province's food terminal, and there will be what we in the industry call “dumping”. They'll be bringing it there at a very cheap price, or cheaper than they're selling in their own province, and this puts up a challenge when the other province has a lot of that commodity around.
Those are some of the challenges, especially when it comes to some provinces getting subsidized for transportation or in one way or another for that product. It creates an unfair competitive playing field. Across the country, we would like to see more of our trade barriers being with neighbouring countries rather than the provinces. We'd like to see energy and time spent dealing with it on a national level, rather than a provincial level.
There have been a number of incidents in which one province can go to another province, but if that other province goes back to the province, where it's not subsidized with transportation or something, they're very I guess acute in not accepting the product there. They hold it very well to their own. We'd really like to see a balance and an understanding of where these subsidies are put into play. We don't think they should be allowed in that way.
NDP
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Malcolm Allen
Okay. You have up to 10 minutes, but you can use as much or as little time as you wish. That's entirely up to you.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Malcolm Allen
Based on that, we'll now start the rounds of questioning with Madam Brosseau.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Chair.
I thank the witness for coming. I'm sorry you had trouble finding the room, but we appreciate your input and your help with this study.
As you know, agriculture is very important to the Canadian economy, with one in eight jobs due to agriculture and agrifood. You were talking about the interprovincial trade challenges and the subsidizing that happens with transportation. Do you have any solutions to propose?
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
We would really like to see restrictions on that, especially when we're going interprovincially. I don't think one province should be subsidizing transportation when another province doesn't. It doesn't show competitiveness as a nation. We want to be working as a Canadian agrifood country, rather than hurting each other interprovincially. So maybe—
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Maybe there's legislation to be put in place that frowns upon doing something like that.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
One thing we hear a lot in meeting with farmers and different stakeholders is that there are problems with the labour force. Have any of your members ever brought up problems with acquiring farm workers?
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
In horticulture, our sector, labour is one of the most key components, outside of the weather, in what we do. Sixty per cent—and I'm using that as a rough number—of our input costs are directly related to labour.
We have a great program nationally with the F.A.R.M.S. program, the foreign agricultural worker program. We're able to access workers from the Caribbean and from Mexico. That is a vital program for what we do. As for accessing labour outside of that program for what we do, it would be nearly impossible to fill the needs of our sector.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
The riding I represent is halfway between Montreal and Quebec City. There are about 34 municipalities. A lot of my farmers who use seasonal temporary foreign workers have had a lot of issues. The application process isn't very clear, and they've had a lot of issues with getting those workers in on time. Last year, the Province of Quebec lost about $53 million in revenue because of trouble in getting the workers in on time.
Could you talk to us about any other suggestions or any other issues that you see facing the fruit and vegetable industry when it comes to interprovincial trade?
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
To talk first about the challenges in Quebec with the program, would that be under—I don't want to pronounce this wrong, and forgive me if I do—the FERME program, which is the equivalent of F.A.R.M.S. for what we do here in Ontario? Is that correct?
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
I know that in the media there has been a lot of negativity about temporary worker programs that maybe do not relate directly to agriculture or what we saw happening with McDonalds and different things. Those are different programs.
I think what's happened in the last couple of years with that in protecting the F.A.R.M.S. and FERME programs is about being able to make sure that all the farmers are doing their due diligence in putting in an ad at Canada's Job Bank and in putting in another ad. I think they tightened up on all the protocols, which were already in place, just to make sure that everyone was doing what they were supposed to be doing to access these workers.
Sometimes when it gets down to a farm level where things.... How can I say this? Sometimes the farmers struggle with doing some of the paperwork that's involved. However, I believe it's necessary for us to have to go through that type of paperwork and do all of that. I think that sometimes that's where the struggle is and that's where sometimes people may lose workers.
There were also some challenges with ordering your workers on time. You have to order them a few months in advance, and if you do not do that.... In Jamaica, there's a security protocol that they have to go through and there are criminal background checks that have to be done, and if they're not given enough time on that end from when the farmers order the people, they won't get them on time because of the process.
Also, when you put your ads in the Job Bank, they have to be running for so many weeks or so before you can actually access the number. All the information is there and it's easy to understand, but sometimes it unfortunately falls through the cracks with some farmers.
NDP
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome to our witness. Congratulations on your new chairmanship role.
We are talking about interprovincial trade barriers here, and not the foreign workers program, so I'll stay away from that and ask my colleagues to stay away from it as well.
I do take your words to mind. I'm very familiar with the program in Nova Scotia. To my knowledge, no farmer has lost the ability to access workers if they've done their paperwork properly—that's the bottom line on it—and have enough lead time. If you're in the middle of harvest and suddenly decide that you need two more people, that's problematic. You have to figure it out before that.
On the interprovincial trade issue, we often look at our trade regime with foreign nations, as you've mentioned. It works quite well. We have a system of parameters in place, including anti-dumping legislation, countervailing tariff legislation, and phytosanitary restrictions, all of it written down and all of it very clear for people to follow.
Within that realm of parameters, there are always some issues that we take exception to. It amazes me that provincially, where we're looking at somewhere in the range of $42 billion in interprovincial trade, we don't have a similar program. I wonder if your association has ever thought about that or looked at the possibility of actually being part of a Canada-wide, pan-Canadian effort that would put clear parameters in place.
One issue you brought up was anti-dumping. Someone is actually selling below the cost of production a product that you're producing in your province. You cannot do that internationally. There's no reason why we should be able to do it provincially. It would just call for better planning all the way around. I'd like your comments on that.