Evidence of meeting #56 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was onions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Thank you, Chair. It's good to have you in the chair today, Malcolm, although normally our chair does a good job himself.
I wanted to talk to Jason. You farm onions, and I noticed that in 2011 that you won the Ontario Outstanding Young Farmers award, so you're quite a farmer, I would say.
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
By the way, somebody else did beat me—
4:20 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
I'm from B.C., a member of Parliament, and the B.C. guy on agriculture here. The wine bill that we had was meant to break down the interprovincial barriers as well, the national barriers to selling wine across provinces. We thought we had all the provinces on board to a certain extent. We thought the trade would happen as soon as we enacted this bill.
I think in good faith that the bill is still a good bill, but the problem—or the blessing, depending on how you look at it—is that provinces are still very independent in what they decide to do with their own regulations and their own laws. Although it would be nice to say that this is the way it's going to be, provinces are the masters of their own domain in a lot of ways. It's very difficult for us to change a particular rule in this regard, especially with dumping. It would be a challenge to say that one province can't do something and another province can. That's the challenge before us.
The question I have for you, though, is whether there are barriers to trade in your industry that are just natural barriers. Are certain provinces more susceptible to wanting certain products? Do Quebeckers eat more tomatoes than people in Ontario or do Manitobans eat more onion? Is there any kind of marketing arm of your particular group that is looking at new emerging markets within Canada and maybe talking about the economics, maybe a demand barrier that's within our provinces?
4:20 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Research definitely is always being done on that, especially for new Canadians who aren't European-based. When we're talking about people coming in from India and from Asia, they have a different cultural cuisine, let's say.
When new immigration to Canada starts from a country.... You can take a look at history right back to when the Dutch came in the 1920s and 1930s, when the Italians came in the 1960s, and when Asians started coming in heavily in the 1980s, along with the Indians. They have taste preferences. There are some products we didn't grow here in this country that they would definitely pay a high price to import, because it's tied to them religiously and culturally, and it's very important.
A lot of research has looked at changing what we grow to meet the demographic change in regard to some of these populations within the country. Right now, work is being done on Asian eggplant and East Indian eggplant. We've done work on an East Indian red carrot. They also need okra, bok choy, Shanghai bok choy, and all the different Asian lettuces. There is definitely work being done on trying to take some acres out of what we grow too much of and putting some acres into that.
There's a slow transition, because if you don't get it just right, you can't sell it. The flavour, the taste, and the look have to be exactly what they have back home or they're not interested.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Bob Zimmer Conservative Prince George—Peace River, BC
Thank you for that, Jason. It's encouraging to know that you're so much into looking for solutions and trying to find new markets within Canada.
I have one other question with regard to what my colleague from Alberta said previously. You talked about dumping. Again, are there any kinds of regulatory barriers that you're aware of specifically as they relate to your industry? That's what this study is meant to get to the bottom of: those the little red tape things that get in the way.
If there's any way we can dig into these and deal with them as parliamentarians, that's what we're really trying to do with this study. It's to target those little things that are stumbling blocks for you guys. Are there any other little barriers to trade that you can think of within your industry?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Not to be making light of the situation, the mountains get in our way a little bit. It really is an interesting dynamic when you look at Canada as a whole, coming right across from British Columbia.... We rarely sell produce into British Columbia because of the logistics around that. They're more apt to trade with California because of the proximity of transportation and the logistics. However, when California is in a drought and very low on product, we have shipped to British Columbia, because some products aren't available. The geography of the country definitely does play into some barriers.
On rules and red tape, again, I'll be honest, that's a learning process for me. We have been studying this more and more and looking at what we can do, because we want to benefit all Canadian farmers.
Sometimes I think that if we could find new and emerging markets to take the pressure away from us, then you wouldn't have these little things between provinces that really challenge us. If we can protect against dumping from other countries and really focus on trying to find new markets and work toward new markets outside Canada, then maybe some of these interprovincial issues that crop up from time to time will slowly disappear, because we'll have the markets to support it.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP Malcolm Allen
Thank you very much. Your time is up.
Normally we would go back to the New Democrat side, but because it's late and folks may have made other arrangements schedule-wise, I'm going to allow each member of the committee to have their rounds.
I'm going to Mr. Maguire and then to Mr. Dreeshen to finish off.
Mr. Maguire, please.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thanks. I just have a couple of quick questions.
Thank you very much for your presentation, Mr. Verkaik.
You mentioned that there are a lot of exports. I believe you said that there is $3 billion in exports now to the U.S., with $4 billion in imports. Is that correct?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
Yes, and those are rough numbers. There are studies for that. If you want, I can email you some information so you would have that more readily available, but yes.
March 24th, 2015 / 4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
It's comparative in those values. Is that from Canada or from Ontario?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
You indicated that you have exports of about 30% to 35% to the U.S. Is that from Canada as well?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
It is. Because I represent an organization that has 150 different fruits and vegetables, it's not true for every one of them. There are such variances with that export number.
For some crops, where you're talking greenhouse vegetables, the cucumbers, tomatoes, and peppers grown in greenhouses, and where you're talking carrots, onions, beets, parsnips, apples, and different things like that, you're going to have more of an influence on the export market. There are some other things we grow that might not have as much need for that export market. Look at ginseng. That's very export-dependent to China.
It really presents challenges in finding out what each crop really needs, but that's stuff that we definitely look at all the time.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
There must be differences, then, just in the amount of.... Before I go on, I guess as a follow-up question to that, how many of those would be self-sufficient? How many of those 150 products would Canada be self-sufficient in?
4:25 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
That's a great question. I wouldn't even begin to guess at an answer at that.
We do have supporting organizations that are part of the Ontario Fruit and Vegetables Growers' Association, and they would probably have those numbers individually. For me to have a number for every one, unless they're presenting me with a direct problem, would be a challenge.
Again, if there's information you would like on certain commodities that have more of a challenge with interprovincial barriers, that's information we can gather and get to you.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Just to finalize this, then, you mentioned the transportation subsidies as a concern, because each province has its own way of doing it. We've seen some issues with other products—processed products and red meat and that sort of thing—moving from province to province. Is there anything in the packaging side of your industry that is an impediment as well in regard to interprovincial trade?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
From what I'm familiar with, most of the packaging we have has on it “Product of Canada”, graded “No. 1”. You might have an address for where the packing house is or where the farm is where that product is coming from, to be able to tell if it's from Quebec, Manitoba, or Ontario. Our grade standard is a federal grade standard. When you have that on the package, other than in an address for where the farm is, there really is no issue on the packaging from that aspect.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
The size of those packages is pretty similar across Canada as well, then?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
It is. In Ontario, you have “Foodland Ontario”. You might have some cases where this is a voluntary thing for a local promotion and you have some people putting that Foodland Ontario symbol on their packaging, but that's not a requirement or anything.
4:30 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll perhaps take a little different tack, and take a look at not just the vegetables as you are trying to sell them, but the vegetables in regard to the seed that you're trying to get, and of course your producers have to deal with seed as an issue.
We talked earlier about the concerns with the neonicotinoids and so on, and whether you're dealing with flea beetles or whatever other issues have to be dealt with. I certainly did appreciate your comment on the difference between coming out of a drama class and being a microbiologist in terms of the movie stars coming up with their ideas as to how things should be.
I'm curious. Can you perhaps talk a little about the growing side of it, about the seeds you have, and whether there happen to be any restrictions as far as transportation of seed goes, whether it's for your potatoes or your carrots and so on? Can you enlighten us in that regard?
4:30 p.m.
Chair, Ontario Fruit and Vegetable Growers' Association
The seed industry is a completely different industry. We're reliant on other companies outside of Canada, really, to produce seed for the majority of what we do. Again, there are a lot of differences if you're looking at getting stock for apple trees or vines for grapes. But if you're going into fruit and vegetables, where you're actually putting a chemical coating on the seed to protect against, as you said, the flea beetle....
The neonicotinoid issue right now is directly related to corn and soybeans. Outside of that, there has been no other movement, but I think the precedent that this has set is very dangerous for the agricultural industry, and it could present problems down the road if somebody decided to pick something as the next evil target and then legislation is made around that. That's where the danger comes in. Right now, our access to seed and chemically treated seed is all done through the PMRA. The studies are all there. Everything is science-based. Right now, there are no issues on getting seed for doing what we do. There is an abundance, and we have some good controls on some of those things.
Sometimes people don't understand the environmental benefit of some of these controls compared to what was done when my grandfather farmed. Farmers use the best technology and the best information of the day to make their decisions. They've done that right since the beginning of time, and that continues to happen. As new information comes out, farmers embrace it.
Farmers have to work directly with the chemicals. They are the ones most exposed and most at risk, and most farm families are very healthy people. Being able to put this on the seed protects the farmer and his family, but also protects the environment and is a better thing, so we should embrace that kind of science and technology.