Evidence of meeting #57 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You caught me out of my chair.
Welcome to our witnesses.
I want to revisit for a moment the whole issue on recall that Ms. Brosseau brought up. What we're struggling with here is the fact that we have two different levels of inspection. You have a level of inspection that's great for Ontario, but if you have an abattoir on the border of Manitoba or on the border of Quebec they can't cross the border with that product. We're looking at the big scheme of things and interprovincial trade barriers. Hopefully we'll be able to make some suggestions to the government on how to break some of these down.
The Canadian Meat Council was here, and as we mentioned earlier they were talking about having one inspection system. The difference between your system...and I'm very familiar with abattoirs, fish plants, and CFIA. It would seem to me that you should be able to upgrade your plant, because from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you're running a very professional business. You're probably in the top level of inspection among the plants in the province. It would seem to me that a half a million dollars is quite a bit of money to upgrade a plant if you're simply looking at putting one extra line in and changing some of the items like your meat rail from bringing an animal in on soft steel versus stainless.
Can you break that down? Do you think half a million is a high number, or is it a low number?
5:10 p.m.
President, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
I think it would be a low number. We have challenges with contractors who can build to a food standard. We're in rural Ontario. We're not in the downtown GTA. That creates challenges. There are always overages and there are always delays in finding people who could develop these rails in rural Ontario. And we're not that far from the Toronto area. There are some plants in Ontario—I was at one earlier this week—that would be 18 hours from us and at least four hours from any large centre.
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
If I could comment on the call for the one inspection system—I think that's where our challenge is—and all the work that has been done since 2000, there are a number of standards being thrown out there. There was the meat hygiene standard, which we said we could meet. Then there's always going to be a requirement for trade, which is above and beyond.
So if the federal plants want that one standard, that's not going to be obtainable for any of the provinces, but does it need to be the international standard when we already have a food safety outcome-based program that is protecting Ontarians?
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Yes, and I don't think any of us are arguing that the provincial system is putting fresh food and safe food on people's tables across the country, whatever province you live in. Our difficulty is that it is not accepted by any other single province in the country. The provinces themselves have been, quite frankly, I think remiss in not trying to settle this and accept one another's standards. We don't even have that level. Whereas at the federal inspection level, at least that allows you to not just sell to the big box stores, and not just sell internationally, but to sell across the border. There are a number of plants where you have a large community just across the border. They can't access that community, and that's a marketplace for them.
You know, I don't think we have the answer. We're just struggling to try to find it.
Maybe you could explain a little better what work your industry has done through the provincial system to try to at least have the provinces recognize each other's standards.
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
As I said, I have been with the organization for 30 years. We couldn't wait for all the other provinces. We have tried to work....
As an example, the province worked with the Alberta government when Ontario developed a HACCP program. Because we were provincially registered, the federal government could not recognize a HACCP system in a provincial plant. The Province of Ontario developed a HACCP advantage program, which Alberta took and modified for their own program. Manitoba implemented it in its entirety. But again, Ontario was always ahead of the game because of the sheer numbers we had. We couldn't rest on not improving and strengthening. As Cory mentioned, we had issues in the provincial system. We also had issues when a large federal plant had....
It's one industry, so we're affected negatively whether it happens in a provincial or a federal facility.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Gerald Keddy Conservative South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
I have one final question, very quickly, on specified risk material. You separate that out in your plants, do you?
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley
Thank you very much, Mr. Keddy.
I'm going to take a bit of a chair privilege just to wrap up on a couple of things, if I could, before we break.
Cory, how long have you been in business?
5:15 p.m.
President, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
My grandfather bought our current business in 1970.
5:15 p.m.
An hon. member
Good for you.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley
[Inaudible--Editor]...very well, and I think that's a bit of the point.
So you are HACCP registered.
Am I hearing, Laurie, that there are different HACCP levels from one province to another? You talked about Ontario developing it. Are they all the same?
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
No. HACCP is beyond the regulations.
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
Ontario meat regulation built the HACCP principles into it. For the other provinces, until they've updated their meat inspection act and their regulations to put those principles in, there isn't a program out there. Certain third party companies can come in and put a HACCP system in place for you and monitor it, but the recognition is missing. Ontario's program was recognized by the Canadian General Standards Board.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley
I think it boggles most of our minds here, quite honestly, the difference in regulatory standards from province to province. The unfortunate part—and this is just an opinion—is that when you don't have the provinces able to come to a provincial standard, it tends to feed into and encourage the argument to just have it all federal. That becomes, I think, a big issue for you. Would that be a concern?
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Ontario Independent Meat Processors
It's absolutely a concern, because it does hold back any type of moving forward. We recognize that for a national meat program you would have to have the provinces all updating their regulations.
One of the questions earlier was who would do the inspection, but I don't think that's the question. Ontario obviously has a force of 128 provincial meat inspectors, and there's also the federal force. It's not who does it. It does come down to who pays for it, but you have the program to base that inspection on.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley
Yes. Okay.
I want to thank the witnesses for coming in, both of you. You've been very up front and very frank.
I think it lays out, quite honestly, as we listen to all of our witnesses who come in, the extent—likely a little more than many of us recognized when we started this study—of the interprovincial barriers that are in place across a broad spectrum of products and commodities. We thank you very much for taking the time today to be a part of our witnesses.
With that, colleagues, we'll adjourn.