Agriculture Committee on Oct. 25th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

I want to welcome everyone to our shortened meeting this morning.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108, we're continuing our study of mental health challenges that Canadian farmers, ranchers and producers face.

We have presenters by video conference and teleconference.

With us this morning by teleconference, from the Manitoba farm and rural stress line, we have Janet Smith, program manager, and Kim Hyndman-Moffat, counsellor.

I think our video conference is not yet online. We will start with our teleconference.

Can you start us, Ms. Smith? You have up to seven minutes.

[Janet Smith, Program Manager, Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services]

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today.

My name is Janet Smith. I'm the program manager with the Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services. With me is Kim Hyndman-Moffat, a counsellor and trainer with our program. Together, we hope to provide the standing committee with a better understanding of our program and how it helps serve the mental health needs of farmers in our province, as well as identify needs, best practices, resources, gaps and recommendations.

The Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services—MFRNSS—is located in Brandon, Manitoba, the agricultural hub of the province. We are an off-site program of Klinic Community Health, which is located in Winnipeg. We've been in operation since 2000 and are funded by our provincial government's Department of Health. The MFRNSS offers free and confidential information, support, counselling and referrals for farmers, as well as rural and northern Manitobans. Counselling takes place over the phone and online. All staff have both professional counselling and farming backgrounds. We also do outreach and public education, and we run a volunteer training program and a monthly suicide bereavement support group.

The standing committee has heard from numerous stakeholders on the challenges facing modern-day farmers. Long hours, isolation, market fluctuations, financial insecurity, crop and livestock disease, and weather are just some of the factors outside of a farmer's control. Farming is, by nature, a risky business, and farmers are no stranger to stress. However, when this stress goes for on a long time without resolution, it can turn to distress.

Recent research out of the University of Guelph has shown that Canadian farmers have high stress levels and are more at risk for depression, anxiety, and burnout than the general population. Farmers also have low help-seeking behaviours due to a variety of factors, including perceived stigma, a stoic farm culture, less access to mental health services in many rural areas, and lack of understanding of the counselling process itself and how it might help.

While no current Canadian research into farm suicides exists, we would argue that farmers are an at-risk group given their high stress levels, low help-seeking behaviours and access to lethal means, such as guns, pesticides and even tractor rollovers. Unfortunately, we in the ag industry know of many farm suicides that are not publicly identified as such.

[Kim Hyndman-Moffat, Counsellor, Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services]

The MFRNSS is a program run by and for farmers. Research conducted by both the Canadian Agricultural Safety Association in 2005 and the University of Guelph in 2016 concluded that when farmers reach out for help, it is of the utmost importance that the person is knowledgeable about farming. Our farm callers often start a conversation with two questions: “Is this confidential?” and “Are you a farmer?” We can answer yes to both.

In terms of clinical practice, the counsellors at the Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services bring with them a wealth of professional skills and education. All staff have received their crisis counselling certification through the American Association of Suicidology, have taken intensive crisis counselling and suicide intervention training, and have received regular clinical supervision through Klinic.

We have adapted and developed numerous resources pertaining to agricultural mental health. These include “Difficult Times: Stress on the Farm”, “Sleepless in Manitoba”, and a free app called “Calm in the Storm”. Our website provides information on our services and connects people to our live chat, which is one of our most popular and fastest-growing services.

Our pamphlet and help cards are distributed widely throughout our province, and we appear with our display or as speakers at agricultural and mental health conferences and trade shows. We are also active on social media. In short, we make every attempt to meet farmers where they're at, with messaging that resonates with them.

The committee has heard about many mental health programs and services for farmers across Canada. These include the excellent awareness-raising efforts by Do More Ag, the U of Guelph's research on agricultural mental health and their soon-to-be-released farmer mental health training, and the peer-to-peer support programs in Quebec, among others. While these are all positive programs, there is still a patchwork quilt of farm-specific mental health services across Canada, particularly when it comes to direct services.

In terms of crisis lines, the Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services has the only farm stress line in Canada that employs solely counsellors with farming backgrounds. Our toll-free number is limited to Manitoba callers and chatters.

Other challenges we face are largely due to limited resources: We are not a 24-7 service; we cannot provide SMS or text support; and we are limited in terms of marketing dollars and outreach.

[Janet Smith]

The Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services supports the recommendations laid out by Dr. Andria Jones-Bitton of the U of Guelph to this committee: namely, support for a Canadian network for farmer mental health, a federal funding stream for farmer mental health research, and evidence-based training programs for farmers and front-line workers.

We would add to this list the following recommendations: farmer assistance programs in every province that are modelled after employment assistance plans—and P.E.I. currently offers such a program—so that farmers can access in-person counselling by professionals with farming backgrounds; online and in-person peer support groups for farmers in each province; and a mental health app designed specifically for farmers.

Our main recommendation to the committee is for funding for 24-7 farm stress services—that would include phone, chat, and text—in each province across Canada, staffed by counsellors with farming backgrounds.

In summary, farmers want, need and deserve a range of mental health services that meet their unique mental health concerns. These services should be available to all farmers across Canada. They should be free, confidential and delivered by people who understand agriculture and the lived experience of the modern-day farm family. Among other programs, we desperately need a fully funded national farm stress service for Canadian farmers in crisis.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. We welcome any questions or comments by the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Smith and Ms. Hyndman-Moffat.

Since we do not have a connection yet for the video conference, we will start with the questioning. When they join us, we can break—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order before I begin.

If those witnesses join us after I have finished my turn, could we at least put one question to them while they are here? If everyone agrees, I will take a bit less time now in order to have more time later. I can use only five minutes now, so that we can put a question to the other group later on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

That's fine. Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you very much for your testimony, Ms. Smith and Ms. Hyndman-Moffat.

Among our many observations over the course of our meetings—and you mentioned this during your presentation, Ms. Smith—is that there were a number of disparate programs from one province to another. Quebec handles things in one way, Manitoba in another, Prince Edward Island in yet another, and so on. In short, there are as many different ways to intervene as there are provinces.

It has come out from the beginning of this study that the federal government and the agriculture department do not have a true mandate in terms of farmers' mental health. What role do you think the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food and the federal government should really play? Should the issue of farmers' mental health be left to the provinces because they have the mandate to look after the health of their citizens? Is it necessary to have a national program in this area?

[Kim Hyndman-Moffat]

That's a great question. I must admit, I don't fully know all the ins and outs of the political system when it comes to budgeting and distribution of mental health dollars. That said, I do believe it may be a hybrid model, provincially and federally driven. We in the provinces know our issues best, so, at the very bare minimum, I think we should be consulting with the provinces about their specific needs and how the delivery should best take place. I think there is possibly a role for a national service whereby farmers from across Canada could call in to one central number and be directed to services within their regions.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Why is it the federal government's responsibility to implement that kind of a service, Ms. Smith?

[Janet Smith]

I think the federal government can show leadership when it comes to the needs of Canadian farmers and work with the provinces to direct the service and make it happen. Without a needs assessment, we probably don't know the best model.

When we first started, there were farm distress lines across the country. Many of them were funded either by their department of agriculture or through a federation of agriculture. All of those programs, with the exception of Saskatchewan's and ours, have since gone away.

The sustainability of each of those provincial programs is really important to keep in mind. Our program is funded through the health department, so we are in essence embedded within the mental health services of our province and are less easily dismantled than, potentially, programs that are funded by independent, non-governmental organizations or departments of agriculture that have a smaller budget.

I don't know if I'm answering your question properly, but I think that a feasibility study, a needs assessment, could be done to determine the role of the federal government and the provincial governments.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

You are answering my question because you are raising a very specific issue: the role of federal government in mental health, taking into account different provincial jurisdictions. Should Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada implement standards and approaches?

That is the question the committee is asking itself after hearing a lot of testimony and many good experiences like yours. In your case, your hotline uses farmers and people who have training or experience in agriculture to respond to farmers' issues. That is an essential element because it is difficult for people to put themselves in farmers' shoes if they have never been involved in agriculture.

One of the elements we are talking about that I often bring up to people who are not involved in agriculture is that a farmer has nowhere but their farm to go after their workday. That situation is fairly unique. Some owners of small or medium-sized businesses may be going through the same experience, and they are also under a lot of stress. However, that is the norm with farmers.

In closing, Mr. Chair, you are reminding us that we adjourned the debate on the motion inviting the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food to appear. I am wondering whether my colleagues have changed their minds on this and whether they would now agree to invite the minister to discuss that specific issue? Do you want us to take up that debate again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Do we have consent to resume the debate?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

It would appear that there is no consent.

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am not asking for a vote. I just want to make sure that the members from across the table do not want the committee to discuss this issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Is there any desire go over that again, to debate the motion that was presented the other day?

No, there's no consent.

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Longfield, six minutes is your time.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Thanks for the presentation from Brandon, Manitoba.

Thanks for the shout-outs to Guelph. My riding is Guelph, and I know that Dr. Jones-Bitton has been working on this a lot.

You've really keyed in on something, and Mr. Berthold was also keying in on it, which is the provincial jurisdictions versus a digital platform that goes nationally.

The Mood Disorders Society of Canada has been working out of Guelph with the University of British Columbia and the University of Alberta on a digital mental health platform. We have bilateral agreements with most of the provinces on mental health, as part of the health accord.

I notice that you've limited the coverage to Manitoba through your 877 number. I was on your website looking at your platforms and service to Manitoban farmers. We have a massive problem. It goes across Canada, and it goes across sectors. Do you also limit your coverage to farmers, or can other people in Manitoba access mental health services through your organization and clinic?

[Janet Smith]

Thanks for the question.

Our name is Manitoba Farm, Rural & Northern Support Services. Probably 70% of our calls are from rural Manitobans.

We are a provincial service. We are open from Monday to Friday,10 a.m. to 9 p.m., according to the budget that we have. We offer both phone and live chat to all of those populations.

We get a lot of questions from people from outside the province about how to access our service and whether the toll-free number and our chat are limited to Manitobans, but that's where our funding comes from, so that's where the limitation is.

I do know that there's a need across the country. I wish we could fill it.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

How to scale this out? Canada covers six time zones.

You don't have 24-7 service, but B.C. could cover one part of the clock, and Newfoundland could cover another part of the clock if we were able to figure out how to coordinate provincial and federal jurisdictional issues. That's what I'm thinking.

[Janet Smith]

The models are out there.

Crisis Services Canada with their national suicide prevention service is doing some great work around suicide prevention, utilizing a model whereby calls and chats come into one central base and then are routed to the first available service in their network. That's one model.

Other models might be having farm stress lines in each province, or in zones or regions that manage, say, three provinces. Another model might be a national farm stress line or stress lines, given the linguistic diversity in our country—French and English, primarily—that would manage the calls out of a central base. It would be more like a Kids Help Phone kind of model.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

It looks like one of the real values that you're bringing to the table is having farmers also getting accreditation for crisis counselling. How do you recruit the farmers into that program?

[Kim Hyndman-Moffat]

I'm a volunteer trainer. We offer a three-month intensive crisis counselling program for people who have applied to take the training. We have extensive background checks, criminal record checks and personal reference checks.

They come in for an interview, and we screen them to see if they have a farming background and a desire to help people, to be good listeners, and to be empathic. For those folks who are going to go further and to answer one of our three crisis lines—that being the Manitoba farm and rural stress line—we want to ensure that they have a full understanding of the needs and issues that are facing farmers presently.

There's a lot of support for those volunteers who come on board. They receive a lot of excellent clinical supervision, and they're a really valuable part of the organization.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Terrific. Thank you.

This is my final question, because I have only a few seconds. How are you measuring success? Is it by the number of calls? Are you tracking whether people get better as a result of the counselling they are getting?

[Janet Smith]

This is a challenging thing to do with crisis counselling, because we may only hear from an individual one time. We have what we call familiar callers, who call us over a period of time, so we get a better sense of how they are doing.