Agriculture Committee on Feb. 5th, 2019

[Meaghan Moniz]

Is the question about aboriginal women participating in agriculture in Canada, in general? My understanding is that the participation of indigenous women in agriculture is much lower. I don't have the number, but I was looking at this a couple of days ago.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you, Ms. Moniz.

I now yield the floor to Mr. Poissant for six minutes.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses.

My first question is for you, Mr. Poirier. I see that you are speaking to us from Washington, in the American state of Utah. To your knowledge, in the United States, are there any specific programs for indigenous agricultural producers, or do they benefit from the same programs as other producers?

[Jean Poirier]

I have no idea.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Okay.

I'll go back to you, Ms. Brown. You said at the outset that there were more indigenous young people in the new generation than non-indigenous young people. How do you explain that difference?

[Debra Brown]

My comment was on population growth in general. As a rural youth-serving organization, we look at what the rural population is doing. We know that in Ontario, it is getting older. The youth population is not growing in rural Canada. The only youth population in Canada that is growing is the indigenous population. When you separate that out, it's interesting to see the vast difference.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Ms. Brown, do you know if anyone has ever tried to set up partnerships between indigenous and non-indigenous farmers?

[Debra Brown]

Definitely. We see that in our clubs. There may be a 4-H club offered and it's off reserve, but there is a significant number of 4-H youth members who actually live on the reserve. They come to their 4-H club and learn from leaders in a community that's very close to their reserve, but it is not the reserve. That club is a mix of indigenous and non-indigenous youth and leaders.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

I am asking that question because I am the member for La Prairie. In my riding, a lot of croplands were given to the Kahnawake community, but they have not been farmed since. I was wondering if the knowledge of non-indigenous farmers could not be put to good use by twinning them with indigenous farmers to get these lands cultivated again. Perhaps this could also be done in the rest of the country.

Do you think that is possible?

[Debra Brown]

I think there's a fine line there, when it comes to agriculture education by non-indigenous individuals for indigenous individuals. I wouldn't say it can't be done, but I would just say that it would have to be developed through a trusting relationship over time, with a mutual exploration around best practices to be shared.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

A witness told us earlier that there was a lack of support on the ground. In what way could the government offer agricultural support to young indigenous people?

[Debra Brown]

I think that the new announcement on mental health is huge. As was previously stated, it's at a crisis level. It is a shame. I think that supports around that are really critical. If you don't have your mental health, you can't even think about what career you want to pursue or hold down a job.

For youth, we really need to help them develop those coping skills for their own resiliency, so that they can go on to pursue careers, have families and become the community leaders that all communities desperately need, which will influence the next generation of youth and make positive change.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

In closing, Jimmy Hall, the executive director of the Indian Agriculture Program of Ontario, said in his testimony that the Canadian Agricultural Partnership did not have a component specifically for indigenous communities. Do you think that omission should be rectified?

[Debra Brown]

I would support that notion.

For 4-H, when we have sought out funding before, we have found that the majority of funding available for 4-H Ontario to apply for, to work with indigenous communities, can only be held by an indigenous community. That is a barrier for us because we can work only with communities that can apply for a grant, manage the grant, etc. We can't actually partner with communities that don't have the capacity to hold those grants and steward those funds. That's limiting for us, that we can't do that.

In the past two years, all the funding has been through partnerships. It has gone directly to those indigenous partners. I think that is missing a significant part of the population that just can't access those funds and is not able to participate in development in that way.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you, Ms. Brown and Mr. Poissant.

Mr. Dreeshen, you have about four or five minutes to conclude.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

It's certainly great to hear the testimony that we're hearing this afternoon.

I am involved, and have been involved, in 4-H for a long time. It was mentioned how, when you want to get people engaged, it usually comes from a grandparent, then a parent and then the child. Everybody knows how important that is, and how critical it is to a community.

Some of it is also about farming. I know that agriculture is a high-tech organization and that you have to be engaged in that. The broadband issue was another concern, whether it's on the education side or in the management of farming operations.

I was a high school math and physics teacher, but I was also responsible for work experience programs, whether it be a work experience green certificate program, as we have in Alberta, or a registered apprenticeship program. Those are the kinds of things that allow students to learn about agriculture and to be engaged in it. I also developed an agriculture course. It was designed in such a way as to deal with linear systems of equations and so on that you wouldn't typically have for a grade 10 student, but if you were talking about feed rations and those types of things, it was something that they were engaged with. That is the potential that you have; you can show young people just where these things can be used. I think the education side, the curriculum development, is part of it.

We know there is an emphasis to make sure that we're also reaching out to indigenous communities so that they have an opportunity to be part of that. That's a critical component that we have as well. Included in that is the discussion we're having at this particular point in time, which is that if we just go back to traditional foods and that approach, that is something that will satisfy young people in indigenous communities. I have the feeling that you need to have both, because they're going to want to look at what kind of return on investment they can actually have. Even in a general farming operation, if you're getting 1% or 2% return on investment, in a lot of ways you're pretty happy with that. Nobody else would be, but you would be.

I wonder if you could speak to the concept of curriculum development and how we can perhaps bring that in from the standard education system that we have in all provinces and tie in our indigenous communities as well.

[Debra Brown]

I do hear from my colleagues, both in the Ministry of Education and 4-H, that the indigenization and decolonization of the curriculum are of vital importance for there to be acceptance of that teaching.

There are four or five other provinces where you can actually earn a high school credit by participating in 4-H. There is a valuing of experiential learning outside the classroom that I've seen develop over the last five years, from P.E.I. all the way to B.C. There is that opportunity. It does spark more of a.... You can see yourself doing it. As you know, in 4-H, our motto is “Learn To Do By Doing”. The way we engage young people is through the experiential learning model that many ministries of education have implemented as well.

In Ontario, we're very focused on the specialist high skills majors program, which does allow for elective credits to be earned by doing 4-H activities. Those can be applied to a specialist high skills major in agriculture. We've been working with the Ontario ministry on that for a little while now.

We see the value of the 4-H club experience around meeting management, networking and connecting youth with leaders, entrepreneurs and farmers in their community. It's also in the classroom, but there's something special that happens in a 4-H club when you have those mentors with you to encourage you, to push you outside your comfort zone, to recognize your gifts and tell you to use them. Those are all great mentorship things that happen in 4-H and in the education system. You have those teachers who encourage students to use their skills in different ways.

I do think there's a big role to play with that youth-adult partnership that happens in a club or in a classroom. However, there is also a lot to be said for what is in the handbook or in the curriculum. Is it going to be accepted by students, and is it going to be accepted by their parents?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Our meeting will conclude on this excellent presentation by 4-H.

Am I too old to join a 4-H club now?

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Yes.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Thank you very much for your testimony, Ms. Brown, Ms. Moniz and Mr. Poirier.

The meeting is adjourned. This study will continue next Thursday.

Thank you.