Agriculture Committee on Feb. 5th, 2019

[Debra Brown]

Yes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Just going back to the first nation engagement, if we were to make a recommendation from this committee to perhaps help you or some other organization connect with first nation youth, what would it be?

[Debra Brown]

In my opinion, the investment needs to be at a younger age, because sparking that interest in agriculture has to come before high school, when you see high school graduation rates that low. We have to connect youth with that sense of hope and that plan of where they want to take their life, and the social support and scholarships and mentors to help drive them there.

Our approach would be to help that happen in indigenous communities themselves, and not to transplant those youth elsewhere and take them away from their social support.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[Debra Brown]

We think that comes in a variety of forms. On the programming.... I think that the indigenous communities and 4-H communities are all grassroots. We do have some very strong shared values. We both value that experiential learning model. In there, we found some commonalities, which we built on to be able to have mutually beneficial relationships with indigenous communities.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's great.

Thank you, Ms. Brown.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

Mr. MacGregor, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Ms. Brown, I'll continue with you. 4-H is a big part of my community. I come all the way from the west coast, from Vancouver Island. We do have a pretty amazing climate there for growing things. On my own property, we already have our garlic appearing out of the ground.

The first part of my riding's name is “Cowichan”. It's the Cowichan people, and they are the largest band in British Columbia, just by the number of members. Their traditional territory expands over a considerable part of Vancouver Island and includes the Lower Mainland. Their traditional foods usually include salmon and clams, but I've talked to some members and they have also looked at the tracts of arable land they have on their reserve. There has been some expression of interest there with regard to getting into agriculture, moving on into something they may not have practised in the past and claiming food sovereignty.

You talked a lot about 4-H's engagement efforts. I know you're speaking for 4-H Ontario, but when you talk about the issue of youth engagement, specifically among first nations, Métis, and even Inuit communities, is it right across the board? Is this a big thing that's happening at the 4-H national level, with all of its member provinces as well?

[Debra Brown]

I would say that, mostly in the western provinces, there is more of a focus on indigenous youth. In B.C., 4-H has a three-year program to foster that connection in various communities across B.C. They have started by looking at the curriculum they use and moving from there. In Saskatchewan, 4-H is also looking at community gardening with indigenous communities. I was just in Saskatoon last week and heard from a presenter. There's a garden right in Saskatoon for which all of the signage is in Cree. There are lots of opportunities.

Indigenous communities aren't just rural, either. We want to keep that in mind, too. It's really about what the needs of the community are and, for us, whether 4-H could offer something to help fill those needs.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Further to what Mr. Drouin was talking about, we've just concluded a mental health study. We know that 4-H was the recipient of some money from the federal government to help deliver some programs.

Mental health is a big issue, particularly among indigenous youth. The suicide statistics we have are a source of national shame. It's such a young population. When I look at the demographics of the Cowichan tribes in my riding, there are so many youth. They really are ready to try to make a name for themselves. They're the first generation born after the residential schools. There's a lot of pressure on them to carry the torch forward.

In terms of the recommendations we as a committee can make, you've talked about how agriculture is increasingly a technical experience now; it's not just someone out there with a hoe and horses. You really have to know the intricacies of how your equipment works. Do you think, going forward, particularly for indigenous youth, given how important education is now...? I'm just thinking about roles that the federal government can play, maybe in scholarships and stuff like that. Is there anything you want to expand on, on that front?

[Debra Brown]

Yes, I think there's definitely a role for the government to play in terms of encouraging youth to pursue higher education. I did have the pleasure of sitting on an Ontario advisory committee on that for under-serviced communities. Rural, of course, was in there as well.

I think it echoes back to what your previous witness said about knowing how to access that. It's wonderful to have scholarships, but if the teachers, students and guidance counsellors don't know how to get at those scholarships for indigenous youth, it will be for naught. I really think there needs to be a hand-in-hand education program on how to access things when you launch something new.

There can be some language barriers to that as well. In Ontario, also, we're still experiencing rural broadband challenges.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Yes.

[Debra Brown]

We have a technology piece, too, and I think the technology in agriculture and the amazing grasp of technology that youth have are where those things coincide.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

To summarize, you also commented on decolonizing our approach. In all these engagements, it's very important that the community be driving this, and that we speak not only to chiefs and councils, but also to the elders and to the students themselves, to make sure it's not a top-down approach and it's actually their community that's leading the efforts and trying to facilitate their needs and wants in this enterprise.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Luc Berthold]

That would be a good conclusion, Mr. MacGregor.

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nassif, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also thank the witnesses.

My question is for Ms. Brown. You represent the 4-H Ontario organization, and in that capacity you try to develop interest in farming among young people. Could you give us some statistics on the participation of young indigenous people as compared to that of non-indigenous young people?

Is the participation of young people higher or lower in indigenous communities?

[Debra Brown]

I would say that, across Canada, the percentage of non-indigenous youth would be greater than the percentage of indigenous youth in our programming. I think that's because there are different needs in those communities than there are in most rural areas across Canada, so it does make it more challenging to engage based on what the need is in the community.

Our 4-H program is set up to offer tools for education to any volunteers across Canada who would like to deliver that education to young people in their neighbourhood or community, but there are other factors at play in indigenous communities. Some of them already have their own educational tools and don't want an outside service provider doing that. Some of them would have a language barrier in order for the adults to be able to deliver that, or they would prefer not to deliver it in English, and right now our resources are mostly in English.

The community is really responsible for what they would like to deliver and how.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Do elders from indigenous communities come and talk about their culture to encourage young people to come back to it or develop a greater appreciation of it?

[Debra Brown]

We would have 4-H volunteers. Some of them may be seen as elders in their indigenous community. The volunteers I know personally were involved in 4-H when they were children. As leaders in their community, they wish the youth they see now to have that experience. In 4-H, in the non-indigenous world, we would say that they are community leaders. Maybe we use a different term, but both would mean that sense of respect in terms of someone who does the right thing in their community, someone who is well known in their community and probably holds a position of power and influence to make change.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I would now like to put a question to Ms. Moniz.

You are a young woman and you coordinate volunteer support. Could you tell us about the participation of women in both indigenous and non-indigenous communities? What is the percentage of that participation and what are the challenges these women face when they want to volunteer?

[Meaghan Moniz, Coordinator, Volunteer Support, First Nations Engagement, 4-H Ontario]

I'm actually [Technical difficulty—Editor].

[Debra Brown]

I can speak to that. We have a pretty even split, actually, between boys and girls involved in the program. If you look at volunteers, we would have more women than men.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Is it even between indigenous and non-indigenous, or is there a difference? I'm talking about women.

[Meaghan Moniz]

When it comes to our volunteers, it's mostly non-indigenous volunteers. We do have a large number of indigenous members. However, we're still trying to figure out exactly where they're placed, because they're in the regular 4-H programming rather than in specific indigenous clubs, which there is a big need for.

For example, when we go into communities and we're speaking to people, there's a huge interest to have indigenous-only clubs run by elders that can deliver that programming based on indigenous cultural values. However, at the time, it's been challenging to get those volunteer leaders to take part. The interest from parents and communities to have the clubs and have that for youth is very strong.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I have a 2016 table here that shows that the number of female farmers is highest in Canada. I see that 36.8% of farmers in first nations communities are women.

I don't know if it's the same for young people. You said that the participation rate for men and women was comparable. So there is no difference and it is not higher for indigenous women than for young people. We always talk about young people since you work with young women. So the percentage of young indigenous women is no higher than the percentage of young non-indigenous women.