Agriculture Committee on June 6th, 2016

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

There was just a hint in an answer that I had from Guelph in saying that they're exporting that product all over the world, but they aren't using it that much in Canada. Maybe that's a sales pitch from my university in Guelph.

On the clarification, just in terms of science and using scientists across the country, it looks like we have some great centres of excellence from scientists. As we look forward into our next budget year, the 2017-18 cycle, we're looking at clusters and at what's developing or could be developed for agriculture. It seems that we have a very strong group within Alberta.

Do you find that you have effective connections across Canada, or is that something the government could help you with?

[Dr. Bruce Rutley]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to respond to the member.

We always take help and always appreciate the support from the government. We have a national advisory committee that advises the National Bee Diagnostic Centre. We mentioned that we have relationships with provincial and federal government researchers and university researchers, and we're connected with the provincial apiculture, so I think we do a pretty good job of being connected.

Dr. Castillo was in the Maritimes just last week, and in Quebec, and he was talking with representatives there who would be collecting samples for the Growing Forward 2 project. I think we're well positioned, and we will continue to build on those relationships.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Dr. Rutley and Mr. Longfield.

Now we have Ms. Lockhart for six minutes in this second round.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Flys, this question is for you, I think.

Wintering losses obviously result in significant financial losses. I'm wondering if you can tell us—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, wouldn't it go to the Conservatives after me?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

No, we changed rounds. That's why—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm sorry. I just wanted to make sure we weren't ignoring our friends across the road.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Go ahead.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I'll restart.

I want to talk about wintering losses and what support there is. We understand from some of our other witnesses that there are significant investments in these colonies. Is there compensation for colony loss?

[André Flys]

There was a program the province had over the past two years that reimbursed us. I think it was about $115, give or take, per colony. The problem was that you had to lose 40% of your colonies before you could get it. If I had 1,000 colonies, I'd have to lose 400, and then I would get $115 for the 401st hive. There was a program for that, but there are some problems with it.

I don't believe that compensation would be the answer. I'd like to look forward more to having a healthy industry that didn't require compensation.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I was thinking more of risk management programs such as the agri-stability program. That doesn't apply?

[André Flys]

There is insurance available. Also, a new program that came out this year had much less of a buy-in. That did become available, so there is crop insurance or livestock insurance available here in Ontario.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

It probably has not been designed specifically for bees, but does the program as designed work well?

[André Flys]

It just came out last year. I don't know what the uptake was. Last I heard, only a few dozen people were enrolled in that program—there are number of insurance programs—and I personally know some beekeepers who have partaken of it.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

I certainly do appreciate your comment about the focus needing to be on healthy bees. I just was looking at ways to mitigate as well.

You mentioned the value for the provincial program being $115 per hive. How does that compare with the actual value of a hive?

[André Flys]

Nucleus colonies, which are basically starter colonies, are valued at about $180 to $200 now. That's not including the equipment you put them in. The value of the bees and the equipment you put them in is somewhere between $350 and $500.

If you're a beekeeper and you're having to replace that, you can also factor in what those colonies would have produced for you had they not died over the winter. There is another $300, $400 or $500 in honey and other products or pollination services that they may have done for the beekeeper, had they not been lost over the winter and the beekeeper had to reinvest in starting up a new colony.

Much of what we do relies on looking after those bees so that in the next year they'll be able to provide income for us.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Dr. Pernal mentioned queen health, and then you brought it up as well. Can you talk to us a little more about ensuring that we have healthy queen bees?

[Dr. Carlos Castillo]

We are currently doing research with imported and local stock of queens, so we are reporting from a few sources. Most beekeepers in Canada are buying their queens, and we are evaluating how they arrive here in Canada. They say the queen has a storage of sperm. They mate and fly once in their life and mate with 10 or 20 drones. They store the sperm in their body and, based on the level of sperm, they have a lasting life of laying eggs that will become workers. The workers are the ones that do the work in the hive and produce the honey.

We check if they are properly mated, if they have enough sperm to produce their progeny, if the sperm is alive or dead, and also we check if the queens are infected with disease or not. All of this gives an idea of how well the queens are to drive a hive for one or two years. This is what we do in the NBCD and very soon it will be available for any beekeepers who want to check their stock.

Right now we are collecting queens from every single province in Canada. They are local producers, and we are now licensed so we can compare how well produced and mated the queens are here in Canada.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Is this because we've seen a decrease in the health of queens, or is it a proactive effort to increase their health?

[Dr. Carlos Castillo]

Probably you have heard before of CAPA. They have stated that one of the main issues of beekeeping is the [Inaudible—Editor] so the queens are not lasting enough time in the hives to produce enough progeny or they have been replaced very quickly. Because of this concern, we are doing this research.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Dr. Castillo.

Thank you, Ms. Lockhart.

Now, Mr. Shipley will split the time with Mr. Warkentin for six minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I just have a quick question or so and I'll cede to my colleague.

André, I have a couple of quick questions.

I think all of us are concerned about the health issue. We all recognize the strength that is needed in our bee population in the colonies that we have.

The farmers out my way and the beekeepers seem to be working hand in hand. The farm operators are working with their equipment...earlier we were told that there was a 70% or 80% decrease in losses, which is actually significant and really good news for everyone.

You mentioned earlier that you were wishing there were a bigger differential in the cost of the seed between the treated and the non-treated. I understand that. The last thing I would want to see though, quite honestly, is an artificial cost added to those farmers, regardless of whether it's 15% or 30%, who actually would get dinged a high subsidized cost that would be subsidized by a few farmers on an artificial cost. I don't think that's what you meant, but anything in terms of seed production should be based on the cost of what the product is, and we'll go from there.

A number of beekeepers in Ontario didn't join the class action suit that is out there. They haven't, and I understand the Canadian Honey Council haven't joined either, and I'm wondering why that would be if it's so significant. I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm just trying to get an explanation for why we have some beekeepers, some that are around us, who actually haven't belonged to it. I'm just wondering what the reason would be.

[André Flys]

There are 3,000 beekeepers in Ontario. Like anything, you would have to ask for their personal reasons. Some people take their time to inform themselves about particular situations and others do not.

Often, we find beekeepers are in places in Ontario where they are not very agriculturally intensive and they may not have problems with their bees. They may not have high overwintering losses or in-season losses, so they may not have reason to become part of that lawsuit as they have not suffered losses.

It's going to depend from person to person as to why they would take part or would not take part in a lawsuit like that.

Again, I always revert to trying to keep the conversation around the need to adjust those incredibly big differentials between where there's a need and where there isn't. We understand farmers need to use pesticides. We would like them to use them where they need them and not use them where they don't. We as beekeepers try to do that as well, controlling varroa mites in our colonies.

Back to your issue regarding seed, I certainly wouldn't ask that they increase the cost of a treated seed, but obviously, it must cost money to treat a seed, and it should cost less money to buy untreated seed, one would assume.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Dr. Rutley and Dr. Castillo, I wanted to get back to you. I got onto the discussion about your facility's capacity. I've been to the facility and I wish all my colleagues would have an opportunity to be there. It's remarkable what you're able to accomplish in such a small footprint.

I understand there has been some effort or plans to expand the current footprint of the facility. Is that still on the books? Are you still working toward that end? Do you have an update for us or an expected plan on how that might proceed?