Agriculture Committee on June 6th, 2016

[Dr. Bruce Rutley]

Mr. Warkentin, may I add a quick supplemental?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

We have to move on to the next questioner. You may be able to add information further on.

[Dr. Bruce Rutley]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Warkentin.

Thank you, Dr. Castillo.

Mr. Breton has the floor for six minutes.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank each of the experts here today.

Our role as a committee is first to see if there is a problem and then to help find solutions as a government. This is our second major meeting with experts. Clearly, there are problems with bee mortality. We know in particular that there are a lot of wintering losses.

First, I would like to understand a few problematic aspects. The Canadian Horticultural Council provided certain data from Statistics Canada. These data show that, from 2009 to 2013, the number of bee colonies in Canada grew by 14%. According to the figures provided by Anne Fowlie of the Canadian Horticultural Council, the number of bee colonies increased by 24% from 2000 to now.

I am simply trying to understand. I do not deny that there have bee colony losses owing to certain factors. Based on the information I have, though, there is an increase in bee colonies in Canada overall.

I would ask each one of you to give me your opinion on this quickly.

[André Flys]

I'll start with the response to that, if it's okay.

We've seen an increase in the need for pollination services across the country, in the Prairies for canola and in eastern provinces and Ontario for blueberry pollination and cranberry pollination. We've seen a very large increase in Ontario. The actual numbers are not to be released yet, but we've seen a substantial increase of pollination contracts going to pollinate blueberry crops. The contracts that are being paid out for those pollination services are increasing.

We've seen more beekeepers investing more money into their businesses and their livestock to increase the numbers that they have for availability for pollination services.

Although we do suffer winter losses, every spring we push to increase those numbers and spend money bringing those numbers up. Those bees are available to pollinate those crops.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Castillo or Mr. Rutley, do you have anything to add?

[Dr. Bruce Rutley]

Yes.

Your question is best answered by industry and I thank our other witness for that.

This also, if I may comment, touches on Mr. Warkentin's question related to the expect for demand for services. In part that demand for service will come from this growth that you have just described.

[Dr. Carlos Castillo]

I agree with the other witness here that there is an increase in the need for pollination in the canola areas and also blueberries in the Atlantic provinces.

That, I think, gives an incentive to probably [Inaudible—Editor] and some of the beekeepers will spray their colonies to have more colonies next year, but that doesn't discount that they are having higher than expected losses during the winter. Everything is related to the market. If there is a need for colonies, the beekeeper will try to fill the need because there is a profit to make; however, the losses that they are having in winter is impacting those benefits.

[Pierre Breton, Liberal, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Breton.

Thank you, Dr. Castillo.

Ms. Brosseau, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for their testimony today.

I would also like to say, Mr. Flys, that I really like your shirt. I think those are bees on your shirt.

I have a quick question for the Grande Prairie Regional College.

Obviously, year after year, you're sampling and doing diagnostics on more bees. Last year, it was 20,000. How many clients is that? If I'm a beekeeper and I have lost thousands and thousands of bees, are those 20,000 clients or 20,000 bees? It might be a silly question. And where are those coming from? Are you getting bees mainly from Ontario or Quebec? Are you able to do a little breakdown? How much does it cost to send bees to have diagnostics done? I know the Government of Canada PMRA was doing tests over the last few years when we had significant losses mainly in Ontario. They were accepting bees and pollen, and they were doing diagnostics on the samples they received. They're no longer doing that now. I was just wondering if you could answer the questions about 20,000 clients or bees.

[Dr. Carlos Castillo]

I would like to answer this question.

When you say 20,000 diagnostics, it depends on how many diagnostics you need per sample. If I did five analyses per sample, then we'd be talking about 4,000 samples. Probably half of those samples come in from research, so we have 2,000 samples coming in from research. There are some very large apiaries, so we have hundreds of samples from apiaries. When we talk specifically about beekeepers, beekeepers send in samples to us. Probably we are talking about a little fewer than 2,000 samples. Probably we are talking about a maximum of 300 to 400 beekeepers. Some beekeepers are sending in a good number of samples. Some keepers of honeybees send only two samples from the two honey colonies they have in their backyard. We cover the whole spectrum for this, from the keeper of honeybees who has 10 hives in their backyard to the large beekeepers' apiaries in Canada with more than 20,000 hives.

To be clear, for 20,000 diagnostics, that means more or less 4,000 samples, and more or less 300 to 400 beekeepers.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay, thank you very much.

Mr. Flys, how are things going this year in Ontario? Are there any more bee losses compared to...?

[André Flys]

The official numbers are not out for our winter losses. We had a very mild winter in Ontario this year. I can say personally that I've had one of the best overwintering successes this year thanks to that mild winter. However, as corn gets planted, we are continuing to see poisonings across the province. So on one hand, things are looking up, but with legislation that's been put in place in Ontario, we were hoping to see a more proactive approach, with many of our growers willingly trying to reduce the amount of acreage they're putting in with treated seed.

The statistics aren't out on that yet, but we are hoping there will be a reduction in the amount of treated seed that goes out there, which will in turn translate into better winter losses.

We don't know; we're pushing to see those statistics. We should have the amount of treated versus untreated seed that was purchased, but that information has yet to be released. Again, it's looking as though many of us have had very few winter losses this year.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

If I'm a farmer and I'm planting corn and soya and I traditionally used to have treated seeds, and I'm looking forward to transitioning and maybe next year using non-treated seeds, is there a problem with access to those seeds in Ontario or in Canada? I guess you'd have to order them maybe a year in advance.

[André Flys]

Yes. That largely depends on who you ask. If you ask the people who are selling the seeds, they will tell you untreated seeds are readily available. But I've spoken to many growers, and they say they have asked for untreated seeds. One person actually switched seed dealers because he was told repeatedly that there was no access to untreated seed, so he went to another dealer and purchased untreated seeds.

I believe there is an access problem, but the statistics will bear that out.

Something else we'd like to see is whether there is a cost differential between a treated seed and an untreated seed. I don't believe, if there is a difference, that it's much. I think seeing that a treated seed was much more expensive than an untreated seed would help a lot of growers make a much more informed decision. If there's no cost differential, then why not use the cheap insurance?

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I guess in Quebec, too, there are a lot more farmers going towards or wanting untreated seeds. I know the PMRA best practices document is basically suggestions on how to use treated seeds, and what to do and what not to do.

Is this book of best practices adequate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Unfortunately, Madam Brosseau, that's the end, so maybe later on Monsieur Flys can answer.

We will now pass to Mr. Longfield for six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and thanks to those who have joined us from Milton and from Alberta.

I am the member of Parliament for Guelph, so closer to one than the others. We have had some conflicting statements between some previous statements that we had from bee researchers from the University of Guelph and a few others. They indicated that there are some pesticides that are safe for bees and that they didn't see a correlation between the neonic policies of Ontario and any effect. We'll possibly be able to see an effect going down the line, but so far, they don't see a direct correlation between bee health and neonics.

That's going to be different from what we have heard this afternoon. How divided is the scientific community on this compared to the beekeepers, and compared to, let's say, industrial people?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Maybe, Monsieur Longfield, you could direct your question, because we're all on video.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm sorry. I'm looking at André Flys.

[André Flys]

To say that pesticides are safe for bees, they are pesticides. They kill insects.

I believe personally that this is a bit of a diversion. All we've really been asking for, and the Province of Ontario has been asking for, in this legislation....

The best agronomists or soil specialists in Ontario, which neither chemical companies nor beekeepers disagree with, say that 15% to 30% of our soils and crops may require, or have enough pest pressure to require, the use of treated seed, yet 99% of our corn is treated year after year, 65% of our soybeans, and half of our wheat. We're asking that growers take a hard look at how much they're growing and what percentage, and reduce those numbers.

If you would like to look at science, you could ask Reed Johnson from Ohio State, or Christian Krupke from Purdue. We have plenty of evidence showing that when these seeds go into the ground, the dust can travel for many kilometres and get on many plants, and expose our bees to it.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you. I am sensitive as to time.

As we're going forward—and sorry folks from out west; we'll get back to you in a second—I just want to drill into this a bit more because we're looking at this as a parliamentary committee. We are trying to find the hot spots that we need to look at policy-wise. As we go into the next round of our agricultural comprehensive policy program, I notice that some of the testimony today, and a previous presentation, mentioned Growing Forward 2. It would seem that we're not finished with our bee impact studies in Canada. We have a lot of variables to look at, and maybe that's something to be tabled for a future study.

I do want to touch on food sources. Going over to Alberta, food sources were strongly mentioned in our last presentations back on May 30. The University of Guelph has developed some food that can be used as supplemental food to reduce the incidence of starvation coming out of the winter seasons. Have you been seeing any of that out west? Have you used any kind of supplements out of Guelph? Are the collaborations reaching out that far?

[Dr. Carlos Castillo]

I think talking with beekeepers recently.... Again, they are having a very good winter for the beekeeper in western Canada. What they use are commercial supplements for their hives. I haven't heard anything about using the new supplement. I assume it is being tested in Ontario and the results are good. I don't see why it wouldn't be coming to this part of Canada.