Evidence of meeting #20 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cattle.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bryan Thiessen  Director, Chair, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Andrea Brocklebank  Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

9:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Welcome, everyone. I would like to start the meeting. I want to say that it's a privilege to be acting as chair today while the chair is travelling with a committee.

As you know, we're studying genetically modified animals for human consumption. Before we get to our witnesses, I want to welcome Mr. Morrissey and Mr. Bratina.

Welcome to our committee as those who are intervening for others. I look forward to your interventions today as we move forward.

We have one hour and our only witnesses today are from the Canadian Cattlemen's Association. Usually we have 10 minutes for each organization that comes before. I know you have a bit of a presentation here, so since there are two of you, rather than 10 minutes each, I'll be lenient and we'll just say 15, if that works. Then we will start with our rounds of questions from the members.

We'll start with Bryan Thiessen, a director of the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and chair of the Beef Cattle Research Council.

With him is Andrea Brocklebank, who is the executive director.

Welcome to both of you.

Brian, I believe you're going to start.

9:45 a.m.

Bryan Thiessen Director, Chair, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Hello and thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. My name is Bryan Thiessen. My father, brother, and I operate a feeding and cattle operation in Saskatchewan and in Alberta. Raising a calf from birth to a 1,450-pound weight takes a lot time, forage, feed, and careful management of animal health and welfare. Transforming that finished animal into safe, nutritious, high-quality beef for consumers is also very technically complex. Getting all this done as economically and efficiently as possible requires constant innovation. Research has been critical to maintaining the growth, economic competitiveness, and sustainability of our multi-generational family farm.

I am a director with the Canadian Cattlemen's Association and also the chair of the Beef Cattle Research Council. I am joined today by BCRC's executive director, Andrea Brocklebank. The BCRC funds research and innovation activities that will contribute to the competitiveness and sustainability of Canada's beef industry. We administer the beef science cluster and focus our research investment in six key areas. These are food safety, beef quality, animal health and welfare, feed grains and feed efficiency, forage and grassland productivity, and environmental sustainability.

Now I'm going to ask Andrea to elaborate on how genomic technology plays a significant role in each of these areas.

9:50 a.m.

Andrea Brocklebank Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Thank you.

GMO technology has seen very limited practical applications in beef cattle for reasons I can explain later if you wish. That may change. Recent developments have allowed genetic surgery to remove the horn gene from dairy cattle. To this point, genetically modified cattle have been developed to produce antibodies to help treat rheumatoid arthritis and organ rejection in human medicine rather than for beef production.

Beef from GMO cattle is not likely to be on the store shelves soon, but peer-reviewed research has already demonstrated that beef from GMO cattle has no measurable differences in nutritional value or adverse health implications compared to non-GMO beef. Beef cattle have been fed GMO feed for many years. A retrospective study of data from over 100 billion head of livestock found no adverse effects of GMO feed on animal health. No residues of GMO feed have been found in the meat or milk either.

Biotechnology does present significant opportunities to Canada's beef industry. In food safety recalls, biotechnology allows the Public Health Agency and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to quickly and precisely identify the specific bacteria responsible for food-borne disease outbreaks. Comparing the DNA fingerprint of samples collected from human patients to samples collected from processing plants and other environments allows source attribution to occur more quickly, or in other words, where and when did the initial contamination occur, and how should the recall be focused?

Agriculture Canada researchers, in collaboration with the Public Health Agency and other Canadian researchers, are using similar methods to track whether anti-microbial-resistant bacteria and genes are moving between farms and human environments through food or water.

For beef quality, Canadian researchers have identified some of the genes responsible for beef tenderness. As many of you as consumers know, tenderness is one of the primary attributes of priority for beef consumers. Advances such as this will allow Canada's beef industry to build on our internationally enviable reputation as a supplier of safe, high-quality beef.

Biotechnology is also being used to develop tools that can rapidly, accurately, and cost effectively diagnose disease in beef cattle to improve animal health and welfare. Calf diarrhea is a very costly cause of illness and death for newborn calves. Bovine respiratory disease is the costliest animal health issue in Canadian feedlots. One current beef cluster project is developing diagnostic panels for both of these diseases. Better biotechnology-based diagnostics lead to better animal health and welfare outcomes for animals, but they can also help veterinarians and cattle producers to design more appropriate preventive vaccination programs and help to ensure more targeted anti-microbial use. Biotechnology also allows for the more rapid development of effective vaccines to prevent diseases. These can reduce animal disease, anti-microbial use, and anti-microbial resistance.

Genomic technologies also allow new feed grains and forage varieties to be developed more rapidly. This is important for our industy, as 80% of the lifetime of a Canadian beef animal is spent on a forage-based diet. In the feedlot sector, feed costs are the largest single variable cost associated with finishing cattle, aside from the purchase of a feeder animal. Any improvement in feed production that enhances productivity through biotechnology can have a very large impact on our industry.

Corn yields are two to three times higher than barley yields. That's partly due to the extensive use of biotechnology in corn breeding. Biotech corn has been grown extensively in central Canada and the U.S. for many years. Both Monsanto and DuPont Pioneer have recently made significant investments in corn breeding in western Canada.

Biotechnology is beginning to find its way into barley breeding. Accurately identifying cultivars that carry favourable genes for quality and disease-resistant traits has facilitated more expedient variety approval. In essence, we are seeing that new varieties are able to reach the market 20% to 40% faster when biotechnology is used to support the breeding process. This is important, as lagging barley yields relative to corn yields have placed the western Canadian feedlot sector at increasing risk of being at a cost disadvantage to the U.S. As we know, if we are at a cost disadvantage to the U.S., we'll see more feeder cattle moved across the border to the U.S. where they will be fed and slaughtered instead of being fed and slaughtered in Canada.

Agriculture Canada's researchers in Alberta and Quebec, through the science cluster, are collaborating to identify genes responsible for improved cold tolerance and winter hardiness in alfalfa and also working on other forage varieties. Once these genes are identified, traditional or biotech breeding methods can be used to move these traits into commercially popular, high-yielding alfalfa lines.

Either approach would work, but the biotech approach is faster, so Canadian forage and cattle producers would benefit sooner.

Lastly, with regard to environmental sustainability, a recent peer-reviewed scientific paper that came out of a beef science cluster project reported that the environmental footprint of Canada's beef industry is shrinking. Compared to 30 years ago, each kilogram of beef we produce today requires 29% fewer breeding stock, 27% fewer slaughter cattle, and 24% less land, and it produces 15% less greenhouse gas.

You might ask how we do that. Better yielding forages and feed mean more cattle can be raised on the same land base. Improved animal nutrition and health means a greater proportion of cows are having a calf every year, and more calves are weaned and stay healthy through the feeding process.

Improved feed efficiency means that cattle are eating less and growing faster. That means fewer days that they're producing manure, drinking water, and generating greenhouse gases.

Improving efficiency through innovation has already proven to have very tangible environmental benefits. With the relatively recent advances in genomics technology, we have every confidence that our environmental footprint will continue to shrink and our production efficiencies will continue to improve.

In terms of informing the public about biotechnology, a small vocal minority of people will oppose any technology, even those with a demonstrable public benefit. This is true for GMOs, vaccination, and many other technologies, but reasonable people will accept the informed expert opinion of impartial scientists.

Canada has excellent scientists in federal, provincial, and university-based institutions. Some of them are also excellent communicators. The general public gets confused when currently it has to choose between the opinion of a technology advocate and the opinion of industry. We feel that encouraging and allowing public scientists to more openly communicate with the media and the public on these issues can help.

Challenges remain. For Canadian companies, researchers, agricultural producers, and society to pursue, accept, and benefit from biotechnology, we need to ensure that new technologies receive regulatory approval in a timely manner in Canada. We're a small market, so consequently companies look at us differently than they do the U.S. If they see delays in our approval processes at all compared to those in the U.S., those are a distraction. Basically, they will look to other markets at that point.

We also need to ensure that new trade agreements are science-based. Timely approvals for new products and market access for agricultural products that are produced using technology are key to ensuring that the Canadian beef industry remains globally competitive relative to our international competitors.

With that, I thank you for your time. We'd be happy to answer any questions.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I want to thank both of you for your presentations.

Now I'd like to turn it over to our members.

Mr. Anderson, go ahead for six minutes, please.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank you for being here, and I thank our other guests with us today. This is an important subject.

A minister has tasked the committee with this study. He sent the committee a letter. It's interesting that in his instructions to the Liberal members to bring the motion forward, he said we should be trying to adequately address the full range of potential issues around the approval of products involving genetically modified animals, beyond those of health and safety.

I guess I'm thankful. If we're going to have a discussion, hopefully we're not going to rehash a lot of those old debates about those two issues. I thank you for your presentation and for doing a good job on that.

You mentioned that we need an approval process that takes place in a timely manner. I'm wondering if you can tell us a little about the Canadian approval process, how it compares with those in the countries around us, and what we can do as a committee to recommend changes that might work more effectively for the beef industry.

9:55 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I think the big thing with the Canadian approval process is that we need to ensure there is sound science for the safety and quality of our products. As an industry, we have an incentive to have that as well, because the long-term sustainability is based on our success.

At the same time, we are a small market compared to many other global markets that companies are looking to invest in. The biggest thing we see there is that if our process is overly onerous or duplicative compared to others, there will be limited incentive to come into a market that is relatively small compared to others.

One of the big things we see is the value of continuing to align our processes and recognizing work already done, especially with our counterpart in the U.S. We have very similar production environments in many areas relative to beef production. Therefore, we need to look at the science being done there, and identify where there are differences that require analysis but do not require additional science above and beyond what is necessary. Then, we must ensure that there are adequate resources within our infrastructure for that timely approval process so there are no backlogs.

I'll give you one example of a technology and what we are seeing. We are seeing new forage lines coming in that allow for extended grazing, so instead of producers having to go out and feed cattle year-round, they can put cattle on extended grazing. This has huge implications for western Canadian farmers who are short of labour and looking for alternative strategies. It results in mixed pastures.

One of the grasses is sainfoin, which helps reduce bloat risk, but you have to have an inoculant for it to grow successfully. Currently those inoculants are not approved in Canada. The seed that is developed in Canada is actually going down to the U.S. to be inoculated, and then producers are bringing it up to Canada. I look at that and say that's not necessarily the most productive for our seed companies. It is also not the most productive for our researchers, who are frankly frustrated by the process.

Timely approvals are important, whether they are related to that or to animal health drugs, as is ensuring that our private companies that are looking to invest at this point are not subjected to an overly onerous system.

10 a.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I think this is a concern for any of us who would be producers, because we've seen the same problem in other areas of PMRA, with the pesticide and herbicide approvals over the years, and now we are hearing about seed issues as well. Do you have any suggestions about how we might improve that process?

This issue of recognizing work already done is something that just keeps coming up again and again. Do you have any suggestions for us on how we might recommend some changes in our approach to that?

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I don't spend as much time on the regulatory side, to be honest. I am more on the research side. What we've heard is that adequately resourcing within CFIA to make sure these don't get backlogged is a big one. We also need to make sure we have a truly risk-based approach that identifies the risks and focuses on the outcomes at this point in time, and that we truly recognize what work has been done—especially in the U.S., which has an equivalent production system to ours—and accept that work instead of requiring additional work. That is where the companies really see the challenges with this.

I think those recommendations have been made in the past, but I would encourage that they be truly implemented within the system moving forward. That comes across in terms of animal health products, as well as in terms of forages, feeds, and all of these various areas.

10 a.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

This will be another question on the regulatory approval process, although you said you are not the expert on that. Our animals are governed by the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and the Food and Drugs Act, so Environment and Climate Change Canada and Health Canada end up being the two key departments that deal with this. How do you see the cattle industry's role fitting in with them and working together with them? Those of us in agriculture sometimes see what we think are agricultural issues given to Health Canada or Environment Canada. I am just wondering how we can make suggestions that would help the cattle industry work with these two departments.

10 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

That's a great question. First of all, I think we have tried to take a different approach than previously, especially on the research side. We are starting projects, right now, for which we have collaborations between industry—at the feedlot level in particular—and Ag Canada, the Public Health Agency, and sometimes even Environment Canada. One example would be on antimicrobial resistance. All of those stakeholders have questions about this, and the sooner everybody is involved, the more comfortable people are when research outcomes come out of projects, and then they accept the science. I think it ensures collaboration across those departments. That is one thing that has fundamentally changed in how we are funding research now through the science clusters. We haven't been able to do that and encourage that collaboration. I would strongly suggest that this needs to continue moving forward.

We have seen approvals tied up. They might even be approved within a certain section of CFIA but then also be classified. In one example, something was approved under the feed section but was then classified as a novel feed through another area.

We need to ensure that these departments are talking and using the same science, and not requiring different science by industry to answer basically the same questions.

10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Anderson.

I'd like to now go to Mr. Longfield, for six minutes, please.

10 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair, and welcome aboard. It's good to see you at the helm of the ship.

Thank you for the presentations. It's a very detailed topic that you've summarized very well. I'm going to be going down the scientific questions around GMO and what constitutes GMO versus just genomics in general.

Could you maybe clarify? I know a very small number of very vocal people look at GMOs as all bad. Where do you see the line between GMO and genetics?

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I asked our science director that actual question and he replied with a one-page email, so it's not easy, and I think that's the discussion.

I'll say it this way. There have been questions about “Frankenmeat”. When we look at animals, we don't see a huge potential for GMO use within cattle. The primary reason for that is the environment we work in. If you select a trait for feed efficiency, it can have negative impacts on reproductive efficiency. This is complex. Most of those things we manage through management strategies. We're not in a pork or poultry environment where it's a barn and you can really isolate. We're on pastures and even in feedlots. When we look at GMOs, often there is that perception, that it's this ultra-product for which you're bringing in genes.

This is about advancing traditional breeding. Traditional breeding was the selection of traits, but it was slower. In many cases what we're doing with GMOs or genetic modifications is not inserting traits from other plants or animals but selecting traits and then accelerating them.

I think the one dividing point is when you're inserting traits from other.... I know salmon, right now, has a trait that's being inserted from an eel. That's probably the biggest divide we see—whether it's a selection within a species or outside.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Great. Thanks.

In your presentation you mentioned gene editing to produce polled animals, animals that don't produce horns, so that you don't have to dehorn the animal, which is actually better for the animal and means lower costs for the producer. Is that an example of Canadian technology?

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I am not actually certain where that was developed, but we've done a lot around tenderness and other areas, with regard to genetics, and we do continue to move forward. I'm not sure where the dairy example is from, but those things are huge in terms of reducing animal welfare concerns and even in terms of injury for our producers when they're trying to dehorn an animal. There are huge, positive impacts.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

In my riding of Guelph, just north of us, we have Semex. The University of Guelph has been doing a lot of research in bovine genetics. You mentioned CFIA and the classification of food products versus other products. I understand that there have been cutbacks at CFIA in recent years. There are issues at the border.

Could you maybe expand a bit on CFIA, and the role of Canadian scientists who work for the government and on how we could maybe work better with industry? You mentioned their ability to speak, and yes, absolutely, we have to get our scientists speaking and putting the issues on the table. Could you expand on that a bit?

10:05 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

In terms of the scientists, first of all, a lot of our research is with Ag Canada scientists—primarily, they're the leads—in collaboration with other scientists, whether through CFIA or the Public Health Agency, so my greatest familiarity is with those scientists. We have some phenomenal scientists across this country, some world-renowned scientists. I think there are two big things in terms of engaging them.

First of all, you want to ensure that they are good communicators and that they're comfortable. This is an area in which some researchers aren't, but we need to enable them and ensure that they have the skills to do this, because they are viewed as being independent, and that's fundamentally important.

Second, when it comes to regulation, industry does advocate for certain things, and we recognize the importance of having scientists who are independent from us when going to look at regulation for government. I think that's important.

In terms of resourcing, I think, again, it's important to ensure that during the approval processes, which are somewhat separate from the science going on, there's acceptance of the scientific processes under way. There also has to be acceptance of the science, whether it's generated in Canada or in other areas, and recognition that this work is highly credible, especially since in many cases it has been peer-reviewed, and that it needs to be accepted.

In terms of the actual resourcing, we have seen backlogs in the past, some of which, I think, have happened because there's not necessarily an outcome-based approach to these types of things, and that means we're overwhelmed with back-and-forth requests and those types of things.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thank you.

I want to try to capture the role that Canada has played in the past. You mentioned that the United States is seen as a leader, when, traditionally, Canada is the leader in this area.

The University of Guelph just received $77 million to position Canada as the food leader in the world. Our scientists and our producers, many of whom are in the room—and I welcome all the people from Saskatchewan who are with us—are here because they have concerns and they want to make sure Canada gets this right.

We are a leader in the world. Can you comment on what we need to do, as a government, to try to get ourselves to be seen as a leader?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I think the biggest things are around funding and capacity. About 30% to 40% of Agriculture Canada researchers are set to retire in the next three years. You don't just hand over those programs. You need to ensure there is a transition and training. These things represent lifetime careers, and that is of concern to our industry. We need to ensure there are people in those seats before the other people retire, in order to ensure continuity, because we have that reputation.

I also think programming for things like the science clusters is fundamentally important, but we can't have year-long gaps in funding; we need to ensure continuous funding. We've built huge programs that are doing phenomenal things for our industry and for public confidence, and the biggest detriment to them is having gaps in terms of funding, which means that post-docs leave, students leave, and those types of things.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Vice-Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

I'll now turn it over to Madam Brosseau.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

I'd like to thank the witnesses for their presentations this morning on this study of genetically modified animals for human consumption.

I think you've been fairly clear that no cattle destined for human consumption is genetically modified. There is no swine, no sheep, and no poultry; it's just salmon for the moment.

In your presentation, Madam Brocklebank, you said that when cattle eat genetically modified feed and they're tested later on, there are no traces of GMOs. Is that the same thing for other animals?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

The studies that were done actually involved a billion livestock, including pork, poultry, and lambs. Everything was done as a cumulative study, and in essence, all of that meat retained the same nutritional value, retained the same qualities, and contained no traces of residues of feed.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Things change pretty fast in agriculture with research, development, and innovation. Do you think in five or 10 or 20 years there will be a need for genetically modified beef cattle or for sheep or chicken? Do you see a future for genetically modified mammals for human consumption?

10:10 a.m.

Executive Director, Beef Cattle Research Council, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Andrea Brocklebank

I think the big thing to go back to is that it's complex. Selecting for one trait relative to feed efficiency, which Bryan would like in a feedlot, may have implications on reproductive failure, and we operate in very different environments.

I see the value of genetic modification and selection for certain traits to speed up current breeding processes, but the industry itself has an incentive to be very careful in this area. If we select for something in eastern Canada, that can have dramatic consequences in a western Canadian production environment, which is a very different environment.

Ultimately, we recognize that our production system isn't going to change substantially. The Canadian beef industry has the advantage that our cattle spend the majority of their time on grasslands, and that's something pork and poultry can't do, so there's benefit there; but that environment means we're not going to see huge potential for genetically modified meat. It's more about how we use genetics to enhance our system.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Is cloning an animal genetic modification? I know we don't do that, but it's been done.