Agriculture Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Dave Conley]

Do you mean that have come to us and said no? No.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay.

What role does the government need to play?

Earlier we talked a lot about making sure that consumers have confidence in products. In the case of grains and seeds, we've been growing soybeans, canola, and other products for over 20 years. What role does the government need to play to counter the campaigns that we may see online and make sure we are providing Canadians with responsible and adequate information when it comes to making decisions when they buy products?

[Dave Conley]

That's for you.

[Andrew Casey]

It's similar to Mr. Anderson's question, and it's a good one: can the government play a bigger role? I think, as in to my previous answer, that we need to ensure that the regulatory system is as competitive as possible.

These advancements, these innovations, are taking place at such a rapid rate and they're in such unique spaces that you have to keep up with that pace, and it's very difficult at times. There's no question about that, so we have to make sure not only that our existing set of scientists in the four departments in Canada are up to speed on the technology but also that our university system is prepared for that as well, because that's where we're getting most of our scientists who come into those departments and who will become the future regulators. That would be another important role governments could play.

The marketplace is going to essentially regulate itself. You're going to get to a point where these products are going to sell themselves based on their virtues. Right now, I think when you put GMO on it, there is obviously some baggage associated with those letters. There are other words that could be used to replace that. “Precision engineering” might be another term that could be used.

The benefits will outweigh also what is basically a negative image, and the benefits are real. In the case of AquaBounty, for example, you've heard about the benefits: you're able to grow them close to the marketplace, you require fewer nutrients, you can grow them faster, and you can get them to the marketplace fresher. There are benefits to the markets that you're in, but you can also now bring that fish to other markets that couldn't normally have fish as a protein.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Have you done a market analysis to see if the Canadian consumer is willing to buy or is looking forward to buying salmon? Have research and polling been done on that?

When you go to a supermarket and it's not labelled, you kind of don't know what you're buying, but if it is labelled, maybe Canadians would be a little bit more hesitant. Have you done a market analysis to see if Canadians are willing to buy your products? If so, can we see it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Could we have a very quick answer? We're just about out of time.

[Andrew Casey]

That raises a question that was raised earlier about polls. It's a dangerous place to go when you start to do regulatory policy based on polling. I think polling can help to shape and to understand where people's concerns are, but at the end of the day, what you need to address that concern is to get more information into the hands of the consumers, and that's what the companies are going to do.

I think the benefits greatly outweigh any perceived risk or any risk that might have been thought of that may be coming down the line. We know what the benefits are right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

Mr. Drouin, you have six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Casey and Mr. Conley for appearing before this committee. We certainly appreciate it as we conduct our study on GMO.

Mr. Casey, you touched on a point with Mr. Anderson, I believe. You mentioned an overload of information with regard to labelling and you said that you don't want our products to look like a NASCAR car.

I want to touch on what Ms. Brosseau mentioned. One of the biggest factors behind consumer decision-making is preference. Do you believe the industry should play a role in ensuring that GMO products are safe? What do you see as being the role of industry versus the role of government in doing that?

[Andrew Casey]

Certainly it's bad business to produce unsafe products. You're not going to be around very long if that's what you're doing. That's paramount.

You heard about the 20-year experience with the AquaBounty fish, and all the other companies are the same. They take a long time to bring that innovation to the marketplace. It goes through safety and efficacy tests internally, but then it has to go through a number of regulators, and you have to recall that most of the marketplaces for these innovations are not Canada. Canada represents a very small percentage of the global marketplace. You're producing these for a global marketplace, and so you have to go through a number of other regulators, predominantly in the U.S. but obviously in Europe as well, that also have their own processes and standards in place. That is a huge part of it, and I think that is where the industry absolutely has to make sure the product is as effective and as safe as possible before it gets to market, to make sure that everybody feels comfortable and knows that those products are safe to consume.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You have also touched on another point. How can Canada ensure we keep that conversation on an international basis and keep that conversation science based? Do you see a bigger role that CFI should play to ensure that when companies develop products that are safe for consumption, other countries continue to base that conversation on science?

Do you see a role, and how can we improve that role?

[Andrew Casey]

Absolutely, because it's for a global population, and Canada is known around the world as having a solid regulatory system in place. It's one of the best in the world, and keeping that system ahead of the other countries is very important. It's a global marketplace, it's globally competitive, and we have to understand that we can create a little bubble for Canada and hope this stuff doesn't happen, but that's not the reality. We're out there. We're trying to address global challenges, and these are solutions for those challenges.

Canada has a unique position to be very competitive in that space, but a huge part of the success of the companies here is our regulatory system.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Conley, can you talk to me about the process that AquaBounty Technologies went through to ensure the salmon would be safe for human consumption?

[Dave Conley]

I don't have that offhand. That was in the science studies provided and that was before my time, but I can get that for you if you want it.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You can provide that information to the committee?

[Dave Conley]

Yes. I'll see what was in the package and I can provide that, I think.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thanks.

I want to touch again on the role of government. What we have heard from the previous witnesses is that the government should be doing an assessment for economic impact before any GM product is approved for release. I think, Mr. Casey, you have touched on government playing only a regulatory role on health and safety.

Do you agree with that statement?

[Andrew Casey]

No. The marketplace will dictate whether there is an economic value. Why would you produce something that is not going to be sold? I think it's counterintuitive that you would spend millions of dollars in research and development to put something out there and hope the world wants it. By the time you have put it out there, you have done it, but you have done it not on your own. Usually, if not in all cases, you found global investors to invest in your company and your innovation. They are confident the science is rigorous and it's going to amount to innovation.

There are risks that you will fail. There's no question about that, but by the time you have commercialized it and put it out into the marketplace, you have proven its safety and efficacy. Now you're getting into the place where you can sell it.

If somebody had walked into a boardroom that I was sitting in with the idea for Pokémon GO, I would have told them to get out—it's never going to work, it's crazy, and I wouldn't spend a dime on it—yet here we are. Whatever it took to develop that, maybe $20 million and six months, it resulted in something my 10-year-old can't take out of his hands. I can't predict that, and it shouldn't be the government's role to try to predict what will work in the marketplace. You have to let the global marketplace figure that out.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I agree with that statement.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You have 45 seconds left.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

We have the science right, but how do you think government can play a role in ensuring that we can market that science properly to ensure that consumers have confidence in GMO products? There is a small sector of the population that is worried about that, but we need to ensure that they do have confidence in the product. How can the Government of Canada play that role, if they should play that role?

[Andrew Casey]

The question's been asked about three times now. If what you're advocating is a government spend for a massive campaign to support the industry, I fully support it, because I think there's a lot to boast about.

We have a phenomenal amount of innovation coming out of this country. It's being done in a scientific and rigorous way. It stands to reap enormous economic benefits for this country. Canola is one example, and there are many others. Some of the examples I cited that are coming to the marketplace are extremely exciting, and they will generate massive amounts of economic benefit to the regions from which those innovations come.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Casey. We're out of time.

We might have one quick question for the second round from each member. I say “quick” because we have about five minutes.

If everybody's okay with that, we'll go through the round. There are three people to speak, so just a quick-fire question. Are we good for that?

We will start with Mr. Longfield for the first one.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I was hoping you weren't going to do that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!