Evidence of meeting #46 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was issues.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brett Halstead  President, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Brian Innes  Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada
Catherine Scovil  Director of Government Relations, Canadian Canola Growers Association
Tia Loftsgard  Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association
Wallace Hamm  General Manager, Pro-Cert Organic
Dennis Laycraft  Executive Vice-President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses. You need to be given a lot of credit. I think I heard that you've doubled your production in canola in 10 years. There will be a lot of things that will be a part of that success story, but when we get to the scientific evidence, it doesn't matter who's in government and it doesn't matter what country we're talking about, we always talk about requiring science and that it needs to be evidence-based, yet we get to the quandary where, I think, sometimes it's a science of convenience and interpretation.

I remember CETA discussions in Europe, at a time of GMOs. At that time, there absolutely was no science—as we all know, and as Francis has mentioned—against anything that was GMO or that it did not meet the safety of all those requirements. The comment was that it was public opinion that drove the governments to not accept that science and technology.

I want to just touch, then, on China and the blackleg. If I understood you right, the requirement was 1%. They've now altered the standard. I'm assuming that's an international standard, which would be 2.5% for not only Canada but other countries that ship in. Is that now established, whatever that number is? Maybe you could clarify that. Is that established now for the next shipments continuing on, or was that a one-time resolution?

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada

Brian Innes

We have stable access for our canola seed to 2020. This means that dockage requirements are as they were in the past, which is a commercial negotiation between buyer and seller. There is a Canadian standard at 2.5%, and that is a general guideline. Our current trade with China is now stable until 2020.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

That's great.

When we talk about biotechnology and innovation, sometimes we are ahead of other countries in terms of that biotechnology, whether it's in phytosanitary or sanitary, seed, the biotechnology part of it. How do we deal with other countries? We often are criticized in Canada because our regulatory process takes longer for our products to get approved on the market than some other countries, like the United States. They've lost that market, then, because if we're being held back by that technology, we're likely behind the eight ball in sometimes having that approved anyway. How does that work?

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada

Brian Innes

I'll start. I would reflect that one thing that's really helpful is when regulators talk to each other. It's certainly the industry's wish that things are entirely synchronized across our 50 markets, but in reality, that's never going to be the case.

What is helpful is when there is a clear message that regulators should work with their international counterparts and that alignment is actually in the best interests of both an exporting country and an importing country. I think the committee heard Canada is the fifth-largest exporter and the fifth-largest importer in the world. The message is, yes, the regulator's mandate and domestic health and safety are important, but you can also accomplish that by working with your international counterparts.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Just to clarify the point, if it becomes a non-trade tariff barrier or measure, which is sometimes referred to, for Canada, is it the same measure or barrier for the next country that is also shipping in at the same time? Is there any sort of preference that happens or is it because this is the way it is, it's the same for every country? Do we know that through the market access secretariat, for example?

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada

Brian Innes

I'll use biotechnology in China, for example. In some instances, we've had canola traits approved in Canada since 2012 that are still not commercialized and won't be commercialized until 2019. Once we get those, hopefully, approved in China, that means that anybody can grow those canola traits in the world. The challenge is, who else grows canola and exports canola in the world? Most of it comes from Canada. Sometimes these non-tariff measures have a disproportionate impact on Canada, and the situation I described on our canola varieties in China is exactly one of those situations.

When it comes to things like food and feed safety, that's very country-specific. For example, for us to be able to export our canola meal to China, each of our individual facilities in our system needs to be recognized by the Chinese food safety authority. In that case, it's very country-specific.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Okay. I was reading in an article regarding India and the requirement of a fumigant to be put on canola products going into India. Is that something that we know is also required of our competitor countries around us?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Give a quick answer, please.

11:55 a.m.

Vice-President, Government Relations, Canola Council of Canada

Brian Innes

For India, we don't send canola seed to India and we're not subject to that currently, but those measures often apply to all countries. It really depends on the specific issue.

Noon

Conservative

Bev Shipley Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you very much, Mr. Shipley.

Thank you Mr. Innes.

With this, we will conclude our first hour of the panel. I want to thank everyone on the panel for being here today. I think we could have used another hour or two, because it's very interesting and it's a very important market for us, for sure. Thank you again.

We shall break to change the panel and also for you to grab a plate, if you want, and we'll get back in our seats and get it going again.

Thank you.

Noon

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Can I ask everyone to get back to their seats—we can eat on the go, I guess—and we'll get our second hour under way.

I'd like to welcome our panel. From the Canada Organic Trade Association, we have Tia Loftsgard, executive director. From the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, we have Dennis Laycraft, executive vice-president. Finally, from Pro-Cert Organic, we have Wallace Hamm, general manager.

Welcome to all of you.

I don't know if there was any order of who wanted to present first. Let's start with Ms. Loftsgard, for 10 minutes. Thank you.

Noon

Tia Loftsgard Executive Director, Canada Organic Trade Association

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and the honourable members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me to speak today on the topic of non-tariff trade barriers. My name is Tia Loftsgard. I'm the executive director of the Canada Organic Trade Association.

I'm joined today by my colleague, Wallace Hamm, general manager of Pro-Cert, which is one of the largest Canadian organic certification bodies. Following my presentation, he will present on areas where immediate action is needed to address some self-imposed barriers to trade that we are experiencing as an organic industry.

The Canada Organic Trade Association is a national membership-based organization. COTA is the voice of organic trade in Canada. We work on market access issues via international trade missions, and we have been involved with the federal government on the assessment of foreign organic standards and organic equivalency agreements.

Our membership represents the entire organic value chain, including farmers, manufacturers, importers, exporters, distributors, and provincial organizations. We also lead on industry and consumer awareness initiatives, as well as organic data collection for the organic value chain round table and the organic sector.

Currently our organic industry is worth $80 billion U.S. worldwide, and it is estimated to grow between 16% and 25% by 2020. Canada is the fifth-largest organic market in the world, with $4.7 billion in sales, and we are well regarded as a global export leader in several organic commodities around the world.

Organic is a unique subsector of our Canadian agriculture and trade, as it's limited to traceable organic supply chains and is subject to regulations, standards, third-party inspections, and maximum residue level inspections beyond its conventional counterpart. We are the most heavily regulated sector in Canadian agriculture, and likely as a result, the most trusted.

With more than 22 million Canadians buying organic food weekly, and with 5% of global food sales being organic, Canada's organic sector should position itself to continue to meet these global demands and position itself as a world leader in agriculture. However, the sector on its own cannot achieve this stature when it is continually having to fund its own standards, inspections, and certifications, and to assume all the business risks on its own.

In its current state, the new safe food for Canadians regulations have many threats to our sector, which we will feed into the ongoing consultation process. There is no level playing field for crop insurance coverage, there are no incentives to transition to organic—as many of our trading partners offer—and maintaining the Canadian organic standards review process is going to cost our sector over a million dollars by 2020. This is a cost that the industry has to bear in Canada, yet it is funded entirely by governments in the United States and in the EU.

Organic trade is subject to many business risks related to trade due to our limited supply options, the unknown risks of any changes to NAFTA—as these are two of our largest organic trading partners—and additional testing required on maximum residue levels on Canadian organic products entering foreign markets, particularly because there is no tolerance within the organic sector.

These non-tariff trade barriers are holding back the growth of our sector and the ability to capitalize on the opportunities that exist. At a minimum, the Canadian organic sector should be able to keep pace with its major trading partners and eliminate the non-tariff regulatory barriers that exist.

Secondly, the government collects a vast amount of information and data on agricultural production and import and export trade flows, but it rarely segments out data effectively on the organic sector. The lack of sound data limits the ability to assess market opportunity or the loss of market opportunity for Canadian producers, manufacturers, and businesses. As harmonized sales codes are used to negotiate trade agreements, maintain trade statistics, and identify goods and shipments that pose a risk to the health, safety, and security of Canada, the organic sector is very limited in its ability to track trends, evaluate trade flows, and have concrete data.

We believe a lack of organic data is a risk for the government and for the sector, and it prevents both parties from making informed business decisions, trade agreements, and program-related decisions regarding this sector, which lives within the agricultural envelope. It's noteworthy to mention that 2011 was the last year that census data was collected on the organic sector expansively.

Trade agreements such as NAFTA and CETA are very important trade agreements for the entire agricultural sector. The organic sector is subject to additional trade agreements, such as organic equivalency acts.

Canada has negotiated organic equivalency agreements with 90% of our major trading partners. This includes the United States, the European Union, Switzerland, Costa Rica, and Japan. Agreements with Mexico and South Korea are currently being negotiated. The organic industry's success relies on the Canadian government making sound decisions in relation to these organic equivalency trade agreements and understanding the ramifications of these on Canadian organic trade.

We recommend the following: create a targeted list of 100 new import and export HS codes in order to better understand trade flows in the country; improve the level of detail in the questions about organics in the census of agriculture and other national annual agricultural surveys; improve consultation with the organic industry on the ramifications of foreign organic equivalency agreements; and develop, in partnership with the organic industry, a national organic data-collection strategy that includes production, organic yield, sales, and pricing data for key organic commodities.

Now I'd like to hand over the presentation to my colleague, who will provide additional details and examples of how the non-tariff trade barriers are affecting our sector.

12:15 p.m.

Wallace Hamm General Manager, Pro-Cert Organic

Thank you, Tia.

My name is J. Wallace Hamm, and I am the founder of Pro-Cert Organic Systems, a pan-Canadian organic certifier in its 27th year. I'm also a grain farmer in Saskatchewan, though it's not in the script.

Canada's organic industry is flourishing despite the fact that its eight-year-old Canada organic regime, or COR, is in need of a major overhaul. Much of that overhaul involves the removal of self-imposed, non-tariff trade barriers from the COR. This panel is therefore a serendipitous opportunity for the Canadian organic industry to ask for change. Yes, I said, “self-imposed, non-tariff trade barriers”.

In the next few minutes, I will outline several of these trade barriers gleaned from a draft document, a white paper, entitled—and it's a long title—“COR Enhancements Needed to Ensure Organic Integrity, Increase Consumer Confidence in the Canada Organic Logo and Reinforce our Equivalency Arrangements”.

This is a work-in-progress document, and it is capturing the main organic industry needs for a more competitive and less cumbersome regulatory future as the organic products regulations or OPR, moves from the Canada Agricultural Products Act, CAP Act, to the Safe Food for Canadians Act, and becomes part 14 of the latter, of the regulation. It will be distributed to all and sundry in the very near future, but before the April 21, 2017 deadline for comments on that recently gazetted regulation.

Here are some examples of self-imposed equivalency trade barriers. First is the U.S.- Canada equivalency arrangement, 2009. Certification to the USDA NOP, national organic program, in Canada is no longer allowed at the Canada organic office's request. There was ongoing negative impact on Canadian organic exports to countries that recognize the NOP but not the COR. NOP certification is required for out-of-COR-scope products such as health food products and pet food. There is no practical rationale for this self-imposed trade-restricting rule.

Second is the Canada-European Union organic equivalency arrangement, 2011. Certification to EU standard is also not allowed, at the request of the Canada organic office. There is similar negative impact on Canadian exports to the EU and other countries that want to see the EU logo. Again, there is no practical rationale for an arbitrary trade restrictive rule.

Actions needed include immediate elimination of the COR prohibitions against certification to the U.S., the EU, and other national organic standards, as well as increased consultation with and involvement of organic industry experts before and during equivalency negotiations.

Another example of a self-imposed trade barrier is the lack of sanctions for fraudulent organic claims. The organic products regulation, OPR, does not specify any penalties or fines for organic fraud. Likewise, the proposed part 14 of the safe food for Canadians regulation, SFCR, does not specifically impose penalties and fines for contraventions. It is unclear whether section 39(1) of the Safe Food for Canadians Act applies to part 14 of the regulation. Neither the OPR nor the proposed SFCR specify a cancellation period before fraudulent organic operators can reapply for certification.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

I'm sorry, Mr. Hamm. I believe you had 10 minutes between the two of you, so if I could ask you to quickly conclude....

12:20 p.m.

General Manager, Pro-Cert Organic

Wallace Hamm

I can summarize it, if you want, in one minute.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

If you would.

12:20 p.m.

General Manager, Pro-Cert Organic

Wallace Hamm

That's another example. The U.S. NOP has robust penalties and fines, and it has a five-year revocation period. The biggest concern, I think—and I'm ad libbing—is the demise of the Canada organic office, which is now under way. The COO, although underfunded and staffed, was a highly effective and internationally recognized administrative body that was equivalent to the USDA national organic program office. The unheralded and unrationalized demise of the Canada organic office and the dispersion of the COO staff throughout the CFIA, coupled with the erasing of all organic titles from correspondence and legal documents, will send—and is sending—negative shockwaves throughout the domestic and international organic community. The net message is one of lost emphasis and interest in the organic sector by the Government of Canada.

I thank you for my time.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Hamm. You may have time, if you want to cover some things, when the questions are posed.

Now we have Mr. Dennis Laycraft with the Canadian Cattlemen's Association.

You have 10 minutes, please.

12:20 p.m.

Dennis Laycraft Executive Vice-President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the committee for addressing such an important issue. In our industry, it's one that we spend almost every waking hour addressing.

On behalf of Canada's 68,500 beef cattle producers, we want to share with you the challenges we face in exporting our products around the world.

Canada's beef cattle industry generates about $10 billion in farm cash receipts. About half of that is the result of our export sales. The U.S.A. is our largest export customer, followed by Mexico, Japan, China, and Korea, but we export to somewhere between 80 to 100 countries depending on what's happening in market dynamics every year.

Export sales increase the value of every fed animal, and we feed animals so that they can grade as AA, AAA, or prime, as high-quality animals. Export sales will increase the value by about $450 an animal and that, of course, increases the volume of beef we can produce, which allows our industry to flourish in virtually every province in Canada.

This extra value is the result of selling a range of products that are not preferred in Canada but are delicacies in other markets around the world. Examples are short plates, short ribs, tongues, skirt meat, flank meat, long cut feet, lips, and livers. I could go on with a list of about 300 products that we can pull out of every animal we produce. In order to generate the most value, we need to find the best market for every product that is produced.

There is a growing demand for high-quality cuts as well, as middle-income populations increase in developing countries. Global beef imports are forecast to increase by 26% by 2024. Specifically, imports to the Asia-Pacific region are projected to increase by 44%. The opportunities in the Asia-Pacific region are a huge reason why we remain strong supporters of the trans-Pacific partnership agreement and the efforts to try to salvage it.

I'm here today to outline some of the barriers and impediments that stand in the way of Canada realizing even greater potential in these markets. Beef and beef products are generally considered “sensitive products” in many countries, meaning that they're more heavily protected by other tariffs or non-tariff trade barriers.

While we are seeing progress in lowering tariffs, non-tariff trade barriers are frequently waiting, or newly created ones are set in place to be the next wave of protectionism that we deal with. Generally, there is some effort to try to cloak these efforts under some scientific precautionary excuse, when in reality political science and protectionism are really the root cause of much of this.

I'll give you a few examples that we're looking at. We went through seven years of a WTO case on mandatory country-of-origin labelling in the U.S., which was targeted to discriminate against the imports of live cattle and hogs. Fortunately, we were able to win that, but there's a good possibility that it could raise its ugly head again. We just came back from Washington. We've maintained the legal rights and now have the right to retaliate should they put in place a measure like that again, and we would need to be able to stand prepared to do that.

The border reinspection procedure is outdated and costly. This was actually supposed to be phased out. It wasn't, and we've introduced some of the most sophisticated HACCP systems in the world since that time.

With regard to Europe—I'm going through the free trade countries we're dealing with—their ban on growth hormones dates back to the 1980s when they had a huge surplus of beef. Canada and the U.S. won the WTO case on this, but the European Union refused to comply.

Also, during the negotiations, they excluded meat hygiene from the equivalency agreement, which prevents getting systems approval. We have one of the best systems. In most other countries, they don't go plant by plant and approve it—I'll mention that China does as well—but rather they approve our entire system, which is what we would prefer to have.... It makes more sense. There's a very lengthy process to approve individual food safety interventions. Once you go through all of the scientific work, then it has to go through the parliament for each application, which becomes a highly politicized process over there. To produce animals to qualify for that program, we have costly and detailed certification programs that producers have to go through.

As for China—and this is true with many other countries—today they're not meeting the OIE guidelines for BSE. There's still no access for beef over 30 months or for offal. China is not honouring the international agreed-upon Codex standards for MRLs. We mentioned earlier the need for.... There are such sensitive tests out there, parts per billion, that you can pick up.... If you're not following the proper MRLs...in their case it's ractopamine. Essentially, you have to have fully dedicated equipment so that there is no risk of any sort of even coincidental exposure to it.

They have treated chilled beef as frozen beef, so we can't access the fresh market. We have to send it over frozen, and frozen is more frozen than frozen. It has to be frozen to a colder temperature and more quickly. You get into these sort of unusual techniques.

Again, we go back to individual facilities having to be approved, rather than systems approval. It can take very long, 11 or 12 months, every time you get on the list before you can get approval. We are overcoming those things over time, but as we move into these agreements, systems approval addresses that.

We have a free trade agreement with South Korea. Unfortunately, we are at a tariff disadvantage, but I won't go into that. Again, they're not meeting the OIE guidelines for BSE either. They're restricted under 30 months, when they should be allowing beef from all ages. They have a very long review for future cases. When we found a case in February, it took until the end of December. With other countries, we're open in a matter of two to three weeks, in most cases, but there are a few countries that took 10 or 11 months to go through the procedure to reopen.

They're also interfering.... There's a nuance with the United States, which is importing fed cattle from Canada—if you're from Ontario, you might have seen a much wider price discount. That's because a number of the U.S. plants are not bidding on Ontario cattle because of the certification requirements to go to Korea, even though the agreement says those animals are eligible and...shouldn't be. I won't go into that, other than to say that it's an issue.

There are Japan, Taiwan, and others where we are still not meeting the OIE guidelines related to BSE. I'll end with a couple of other examples. In the last number of years, the facilities.... China and these other countries wanted to go to every single plant. It's a very costly process, and right now a lot of that cost has been downloaded to industry. We'll pay a certain amount, but there is a point where we can't afford to pay for every inspection out there. In those cases, they're simply not getting inspected and not getting approved, so it's standing in the way of some plants that are eligible to export.

One of the self-imposed ones, as we heard earlier, is labour. If you go to Europe—as we prepare for CETA—most of these countries expect a more denuded, trimmed product. It's a more labour-intensive and value-added product to go in there. If we're short on employees, we have to either reduce the number of animals we're processing to put on that line, or continue and not go to Europe. We need to address the labour issue. I'll just leave it at that.

I want to end with what I think are some of the solutions. I'm hopeful, after seeing the Barton report, that we're starting to see a culture shift about agriculture in Canada and the tremendous opportunity it presents in the future. We think that, with that, we can be an important economic driver for our country. We're one of the most trusted suppliers of food in the world as well.

We'd like to see that we maintain and increase the profile, influence, and funding of the market access secretariat. Earlier, I heard everyone stressing how important it is.

Another one is to maintain and expand the role of the Canadian Food Inspection Agency veterinarians and food safety experts posted abroad. They establish important trust in relationships, which helps prevent issues. That's always your best outcome—to stop something from happening or to resolve it quickly.

Within the agency itself, we'd like to see a culture more like Australia's. With their structure under AQIS, they're set up so that they have the president and then quarantine on this side and exports on that side. In our Food Inspection Agency, you have to get quite a ways down and pass the term “import” in senior positions before you get to a term with “exports”. If we're going to be creating that culture.... I mean, imports are part of your quarantine system, your biosecurity, and the things you're doing. We'd like to see that.

We heard this earlier, and I'll reiterate: continue to take a leading role in the international standards bodies such as the OIE, the World Organisation for Animal Health; Codex Alimentarius; and JECFA, the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives.

When necessary, pursue remedies through the World Trade Organization—I mentioned MCOOL—and continue to champion the benefits of a science-based, evidence-based global trading system. I think Canada is ideally positioned.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Laycraft. I'll have to ask you to conclude.

We'll now go to our questions.

Mr. Gourde, go ahead for six minutes.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Dennis Laycraft.

With regard to beef production, you are optimistically talking about a potential increase of 26% in Canada. Is that a percentage of production, exportation or both?

12:30 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dennis Laycraft

The 26% will be imports into those countries, so it will be exports from countries like Canada that can benefit from them.

I saw an interesting analysis of what happens in middle-income growth. They were looking primarily at Asia, but this was equally applying to Africa and other parts. As income increases to $5,000 a year, that's kind of a tipping point at which they start to spend more money on high-quality food. At between $5,000 and $20,000 there's the greatest increase in their food spending. Once you get above that, then you start to go after other luxury items.

As this growth occurs, one of the things you'll see expand the fastest over there will be the quality of food that they start to purchase. They do tend to purchase more protein. That's where you'll see pork, beef, and poultry growth occur.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lévis—Lotbinière, QC

How large should the potential increase be for Canadian beef producers to be able to benefit from that increased global consumption? Would the required increase represent 5%, 10%, 15% or 20% of Canadian production?

12:35 p.m.

Executive Vice-President, Canadian Cattlemen's Association

Dennis Laycraft

We have exported as high as about 70% of our production. We're at about 50% right now.

We have a strategy to look at how we grow our herd across Canada. We could easily achieve 20% to 30%. It will come back to the economics and to the confidence to grow the number of cattle that we're producing. We're quite optimistic. We take a look at Europe, and Europe works well with China, with the standards that are there. When we have the full capability—that is, the full amount of the quotas available to us that phase in over time—we estimate that it could take up to 600,000 animals, or the parts from 600,000 animals, to satisfy the demand in Europe. Other parts of those animals will go to China.

Realistically, what we're talking about with market expansion is probably in the range of a million head of cattle that we could do. We have about four million head of beef cattle, so that's your 20% right there.