Agriculture Committee on April 6th, 2017

[Kris Panday]

We are the largest supplier. There are other suppliers. If you expand pulses a bit, you certainly have the Americans and the Australians. The Ukrainians are active as well.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Brosseau.

Mr. Drouin, go ahead for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here.

As well, I want to thank my colleague Mr. Anderson for bringing this issue forward. I think it's important.

You've touched on a bit of the issue that I wanted to ask about. We've been on short-term extensions since 2004. I didn't quite get the last comment from Mr. Breton. There were some pests that were found, or there were some thoughts that pests were found...? Can you elaborate on that? We have had a clear record for almost over 10 years now, and there's quite a lot of data to say that our products are safe. I want to understand the new technological advances that are there.

[William Anderson]

The technological advances relate to the ability to differentiate species of nematodes.

There was a major concern related to one species that was a pest of concern to India, for which previous detection methodologies were not sufficiently differentiated or specific to be able to say that it was not their pest of concern. We would require fumigation in that case, in order to meet the requirement of not having a pest of concern in those shipments.

Now, as we've used the more modern technological advances that we can utilize to do diagnostics, we can differentiate between these species. We were able to identify that the nematode involved was not a nematode of pest concern to India. We were able to demonstrate to their satisfaction that this was the case, and they no longer considered pulse shipments with respect to that pest of concern coming from Canada.

There are other considerations and other pests in addition, but up to that point in 2015 that was one of the bigger concerns. There are concerns related to insect pests found in grain storage and potential weed seeds. We have programs in place for all our exports that do analysis and diagnostics—this is the systems approach I was referring to—to be able to demonstrate that products that do have infestations or weed seeds, if they've tested positive, would not make their way onto those ships to be sent to India.

There are checks and balances along the way to ensure that the pulse shipments are meeting Indian requirements before we issue a phytosanitary certificate from CFIA.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Was that developed in 2004 or have these checks and balances been developed since 2004?

[William Anderson]

That's a combination of what producers and the Grain Commission are doing, how we are inspecting infestation in general at elevators. It's not specific just to pulses; it's grain.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. The risk of a crop or a shipment being infested is zero because you guys do inspections. How do you think that conversation with India is going to proceed now that they're understanding there are new technological advances, that we have our checks and balances? What is their reaction? Are they bowing heads and saying we've got it?

[William Anderson]

The feedback I've received is that they are happy with what we've provided them. I'm hopeful that they agree with the evidence we've provided and the approach we are pursuing to adjust to their needs.

We have got some initial positive response with respect to what we've provided. They've asked for some additional clarity, and we're hopeful, based on the discussions we've heard at this point and the questions they're asking.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

How important was it for them? We know that the minister recently came back from a trip and, usually our colleague Mr. Shipley is here, but I understand he's somewhere else now, but he was on the trip as well. How important is it to establish those relationships with the political brass in India to ensure that this conversation can happen at a higher level?

[William Anderson]

Do you want to take that one?

[Kris Panday]

Sure. It's important to ensure a really strong political relationship. Effective communication at senior levels is very important with most governments.

In the Indian government in particular, authority comes from the top and very few decisions are made without ratification from the top, so effective communication at senior bureaucratic and political levels is important.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay.

We know that we've got another deadline, and so I'm assuming that you're already working on the long-term solution. Is it realistic to think that we'll have a long-term resolution within the next three months, or are we working on extending the deadline again, as we have been doing since 2004?

[Kris Panday]

We're working on the assurances that have been provided by senior officials in the Indian system. They're the ones who came up with this approach. They did it in full knowledge of our systems approach.

Just to supplement what my colleague has mentioned, our colleagues at the Canadian high commission in Delhi are hearing from other countries' representatives, who are saying that the Indians are referring them to us because the Canadians have a good systems approach that they might wish to draw from.

We think credibility has been established.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's great. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

Again, thanks to Mr. Anderson. This is a really good discussion. I'm thinking it ties into other discussions we've been having on non-tariff trade barriers as one of the risks to manage. We've also done a study on imidacloprid. When we're talking about pest management, when we look at our systems approach and we change part of our system, as has been proposed with imidacloprid, is that part of an ongoing study of pest strategy around pulses that we're doing?

[William Anderson]

I'm not aware.

[Kris Panday]

I'm sorry, I can't speak to that.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

My systems background is coming out. If you change part of the system, doesn't it get picked up when you're proposing a system solution? How stable is our system?

[William Anderson]

I don't think we're talking about changing our system. We are basically providing evidence that the system we have been using all along is effective at mitigating the risks they're concerned about, and we can provide evidence. We're not suggesting that we're doing something differently. We have checks and balances and we have approaches, from production to loading onto a ship, that are effective. What we've done is make a case for these.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay.

In terms of the involvement of India on our side, have Indian officials been working with us and with our agencies?

Canada does strategic development work on pulses with the United States. Would they ever be part those discussions?

[Kris Panday]

As I mentioned, we have the MOU on agricultural cooperation, and there is an ongoing set of exchanges under the plant health technical working group. Both of these provide opportunities for exchanges and for confidence building so that people feel, as in the case of what Dr. Anderson is talking about, that we're actually able to honour the commitments we make and that they do not need to have the fumigation, in this case, to ensure that they're avoiding pests.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm stuck on the system. We are looking at our system of pest management and considering changing it, and I'm wondering about the possible role of universities. I know that the University of Guelph, in my riding, spends a lot of time in India on the bilateral research that might be happening around pest management and changes to what they're using right now, with the bromide solutions.

[Kris Panday]

I'm sorry, I can't really speak to that. I don't think that Dr. Anderson can speak to it very much.