Agriculture Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Each party would have a final one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Each party could take turns asking questions. Would that work for everyone?

Very good. That is how we will proceed for the remainder of the meeting.

Following the usual order, I will give the floor to Mr. Berthold, for six minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with my colleague Mr. Barlow.

Mr. Rosser, do you have the answer to my question? Aha!

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

What was your question again?

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

I wanted to know whether an economic assessment was under way in relation to the food policy, or soil conservation or soil quality.

[Tom Rosser]

Sometimes, we conduct targeted analyses of certain policies. It can be tough to measure the impact some policies can have on the agricultural sector. In those cases, we carry out microanalyses in an effort to assess the impact of our programs and initiatives, as well as to determine whether they are having the expected results.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

We know that the environmental dimension has just been added to the food policy. Soon, we will have to deal with the carbon tax, which will have an impact on Canada’s competitiveness.

From what I heard, studies may sometimes focus on a portion of the policy. In my opinion, when you start an extensive study like this, it is important to consider the consequences of each decision being made so that we can then help the government make a more informed decision.

I rarely make recommendations or suggestions, but would it not be appropriate to consider doing this systematically or is it a new solution that could be adopted by the government?

[Tom Rosser]

I would like to clarify what I meant. Often, whenever possible, we conduct economic analyses on our policy development. Canada's agriculture and food sector generates about $110 billion for our economy.

When it comes to smaller, more targeted programs, it is unlikely that we can measure the economic impact of certain initiatives on the sector. In that case, we try to use other ways to measure the impact. However, we have significant economic analysis capacity in the department and we use it whenever we can to inform our policy-making.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

During the consultations and discussions with the public, I think it would be useful to keep adding this component. Actually, we are told that climate change has a cost and that the way it is managed varies depending on the location.

In my opinion, this should be factored in when studying the state of the soil or new techniques to adopt.

Earlier, Mr. Gray talked about benefits. Will the benefits to farmers offset the disadvantages? Perhaps so; perhaps even climate change will benefit a number of producers. In so, there's no real problem. It will be possible to offset the costs of research and the change in culture. That's my suggestion.

I'm going to give the floor to my colleague Mr. Barlow, who also wanted to ask a question.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much.

Before I ask my question, I'm just going to leave this with my colleagues about our discussion earlier today. I think it's important that we remember whom we work for, that we work for our stakeholders and constituents, not necessarily government officials. I just want to make sure that's clear out there, who our priorities are on here today.

Dr. Gray, could you answer the following for me? I'm from western Canada, and maybe we're a little bit different. Our parcels are bigger and whatnot. One of our witnesses earlier said that two-thirds of farmers in eastern Canada are still tilling, that they haven't accepted no till.

Tom, you're shaking your head. Maybe Mr. Rosser is better to respond to this, but what is the reason for that insistence on continuing with those types of practices when we've seen the benefits of no till, not only on the cost of the operation, but also the environmental impact, the moisture in the soil, and those kinds of things? Is it an educational issue, or is there something we're not doing that we could be doing to try to encourage that no-till practice?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Thank you for the question. I'm not an expert to answer this. I can give you a broad response.

Yes, there's room for improvement in eastern Canada, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that all of the land being tilled can go to zero till. It's complicated. There are areas that are too wet. There are areas where the soil, quite frankly, is too heavy. There are areas where we don't have the perfect tool of zero till.

However, as I imagine your witnesses on Tuesday would have said, there's lots of room for improvement. Generally speaking, the farms are much bigger in western Canada and it's easier to recapitalize. When you go from a plow-disc cultivated system to a zero-till one, you have to buy new equipment that's very expensive. It's generally easier to buy that equipment when you're already working on a large scale. That's my simple response, but we could have people come back to give you more information on the specifics.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Gray.

Thank you, Mr. Barlow and Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Poissant, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to thank the witnesses.

I have three or four questions, but we will stick to the best ones, if I may put it that way.

I'm wondering whether there is any data on the amount of greenhouse gas emissions from animals compared to plants.

Do you have any figures that could give us an idea?

[Tom Rosser]

I thank the parliamentary secretary for the question.

Yes, absolutely, we have data. Unfortunately, I do not know whether I have them with me right now, but we can follow up. As I recall, greenhouse gas emissions from animals make up the bulk of total emissions. It is a significant proportion.

I'm reluctant to provide specific numbers, because I do not have that data on hand, but they are available. We will forward them to the clerk of the committee.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

I can answer the question in general terms.

On page 8 of my presentation, there's a chart. Overall, animals, such as cows, are responsible for about 40% of Canada's greenhouse gases when CO₂ or the equivalent is used. Manure is responsible for about 10% to 15% of greenhouse gases. The N₂O from soil is also responsible for about 40% of the gases. Managing N₂O in the soil is therefore a major challenge for conservation.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Okay. This is a good way to determine which aspect we should focus on.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Exactly.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

That's my understanding.

In the last two budgets, 2016 and 2017, I think the government invested $70 million in 2016 and $77 million in 2017 in research and innovation.

I was not here in previous years. What were the approximate amounts invested in research and innovation?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Is your question specific to the science and technology branch of the department?

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Yes.

[Dr. Brian Gray]

Our budget is about $240 million for the entire science and technology branch. It's been fairly stable over the last three or four years.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Could you also tell me about your relationship with Environment and Climate Change Canada?

Are there regular meetings with officials from your department to discuss what could be put in place so as not to affect the agricultural sector too much?

[Dr. Brian Gray]

I can answer first.

As I mentioned, we have an agreement with the Department of Environment and Climate Change. Assistant deputy ministers meet twice a year, and a working group of directors general meets quarterly. In addition, researchers from the research program meet frequently.

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, I would like to add something.

In addition to our collaboration with the Department of Environment and Climate Change, and in keeping with our agreement, there is an interdepartmental process geared toward advancing the pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change. We have a committee of assistant deputy ministers that meets regularly. The Privy Council Office and the Department of Environment and Climate Change co-chair those committees, in which we participate.

[Jean-Claude Poissant, Liberal, La Prairie, QC]

Do I have any time left?