Evidence of meeting #95 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Methods of protection?
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Yes. It's easy to wash a product before shipping it to try to remove as much pesticide as possible. Do you sometimes conduct site visits? For example, in the case of Egypt, was it only a general recall that has been issued? Are you going to make sure this problem won't happen again in the future?
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I think I understand your question. The agency trusts products arriving in Canada.
The Agency may inspect products in Egypt or elsewhere and the factories that manufacture these products, but it must always assess the risk and determine whether it is high or low. It's a way of determining if we have to visit one country more often than another to inspect the products.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
I would like to speak to a point that Mr. Gorrell raised earlier.
When the agency wants to determine its risk analysis, it can use information that comes from different stakeholders. For example, in the past, the agency has used information from Canadian importers, and this information has led to investigations abroad. Hungarian duck is a recent example. The safety of plants in Hungary exporting foie gras or cuts of duck meat to Canada raised concerns. The agency travelled to Hungary to visit facilities, but no problems were identified.
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
No. The basic principle is that the agency will inspect the finished products to ensure that products sold in Canada are safe.
Depending on the finished products, an audit can be done using the risk techniques and determine whether there is a safety issue. There are different ways to proceed.
Mr. Gorrell talked about results-based regulation. We try to negotiate equivalences, not to follow exactly the same manufacturing protocol, but to achieve the same result.
What is important for the agency is whether the finished product is safe, regardless of how it was produced. So it's the final product that must be tested.
We can actually be satisfied with production methods. In fact, this is what the agency did recently when it visited establishments where poultry is raised in Hungary.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
Production methods are monitored by the agency, here in Canada.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Yes.
Conservative
Luc Berthold Conservative Mégantic—L'Érable, QC
In terms of products that come from elsewhere, we rely on the production methods that are approved. Here, the production methods are checked. However, abroad, the final product is the target of your inspections, hence my question earlier. With respect to production methods, I'm told that here producers supervised by the agency have to exert a great deal of effort and energy to meet the agency's standards, which foreign producers don't necessarily have to do or finance, because the levels of inspection and monitoring of production methods aren't the same.
I'm just closing the loop, further to what I said earlier. If it's only on the basis of complaints that the agency travels abroad, it must be really in the case of a very serious situation. You don't go to countries to do sporadic inspections to see if the methods are correct.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I'm sorry, but I will answer in English because I can to be more specific that way.
Obviously no agency inspects everything around the world. As Mr. Seppey and I said, we look at the outcomes. Is the product safe, whole, and good for Canadians? How they produce it and the rules and the laws in their countries could be similar or they could be different. For example, the European Union has 28 countries. We inspect some of them, and we work with the European Commission to ensure that all the countries are abiding by the rules we made in our agreement. At the end of the day, are the products that arrive in Canada safe? We are not able to tell another country, literally, from a safety point of view, yes, but we look at what the laws are, the rules, and how they do it. Is some of that the same as how we produce things in Canada? No—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Gorrell.
I'm going to have to cut you off.
Thank you, Mr. Berthold.
Mr. Poissant, you have six minutes.
Liberal
Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC
Thank you very much for your presentation.
I want to check something. You said that you still have several responsibilities, including food health and safety. You also manage the animal and plant food sector.
Do all the people in these sectors get together and talk to each other or do they work in silos? I would like to hear your comments on this.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Okay. Thank you for your question, Mr. Poissant.
We work together. There is no silo in terms of each group. For example, now, through the new branch, the agency and the department are working together. Within the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, there are groups responsible for food and plant safety. All the groups and all the work is integrated to have the best answer or the best decision, but it isn't easy to do because, in reality, I'm an expert in one sector, and Mr. Seppey is an expert in another. That's why the new branch has been created. It's a way for us to make sure we're working together.
Liberal
Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC
If I understand correctly, sometimes you get together and speak a little more generally to understand one another better.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Yes, of course.
Liberal
Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC
My other question is along the same lines as Mr. Berthold's. It's more for Mr. Seppey.
When we know we are going to discuss trade with other countries, do we take the time to check their health standards and production standards before getting the conversations going and starting the discussion? We often end up with tariff barriers afterwards, but is there any work done beforehand?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Thank you for your question.
Indeed, before starting negotiations, there are always periods of stakeholder consultation to obtain as much information as possible about export opportunities, but also about the barriers that may exist. Before starting negotiations, we try to clarify or articulate our position to find solutions to these barriers.
The approach we have taken in negotiations with the European Union is a good example. We knew that the problem, as far as the European Union was concerned, wasn't related to tariff barriers, but clearly to regulatory barriers.
Considerable efforts have been made not only to obtain tariff reductions, but also to ensure that the strong regulatory principles that were adopted, such as those contained in the Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures Agreement, could be improved.
In this spirit, we always try to obtain as much information as possible to best resolve these non-tariff barriers. For example, in the EU meat market, we negotiated side letters that dealt specifically with methods of decontaminating meat carcasses. The approaches adopted by European countries involve limiting interventions much more, because their concern is more with the functional quality of meat rather than safety. To a certain extent, these countries take a different approach to ours. So we negotiated a side letter to make sure that a principle or a collaboration was embedded in the agreement, which would enable us to have our methods of decontamination better understood and respected by the European Union.
Liberal
Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC
Very good.
I have another question for you. We know that the provinces are also going to be adopting legislation and regulations on food safety. How do you see that? Do the provinces consult you before they adopt new standards?
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
That is a good question.
All interprovincial and international standards come under federal government responsibility. The standards that apply to provincial abattoirs, for example, come under provincial responsibility, but interprovincial and international trade comes under the responsibility of the federal government.
Liberal
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
In general, federal standards are higher.
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Exactly.
Liberal
Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC
We are watching the start of a conflict between China and the United States. The United States said that they were going to impose a tax on steel, and so on. Then China said that it was going to tax products like soy, fruits and vegetables.
If those countries were to go off in that direction, what effect would it have on Canada?
Assistant Deputy Minister, International Affairs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I will start the answer and my colleague Mr. Seppey might well want to make some comments.
First of all, a trade war does no one any good. There have to be predictable rules and legislation. Perhaps there will be short term advantages for Canada, for pork exports, for example, but, in my opinion, the lack of predictable trade rules between China and the United States may lead to a greater conflict. Canadian industry might perhaps have an advantage, but, in the long term, it would not be a good thing.