Evidence of meeting #11 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alberta.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Food Secure Canada
There is a movement to bring that healthy eating strategy into the hospitals and also build up our local economies and the producers and processors, supporting technically small-scale producers and processors as a result.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
I also want to cross over into the food policy for Canada. We've had a few witnesses on our study so far talk about federal programs like the local food infrastructure fund and the money it produces to help smaller-scale processors to maybe upgrade their facilities and so on. From our position as a committee, we ultimately want to deliver a report in the House of Commons with some clear recommendations.
When you're looking at the federal landscape as it exists under the food policy for Canada, are there any further recommendations you think we could make? Do programs like the local food infrastructure fund need to be expanded? Can you add anything to that?
5:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Food Secure Canada
I think the pending nominations, hopefully soon, of the Canadian food policy advisory council will help connect the dots federally. There's a silo approach not just within Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, which is one department where the food policy is small potatoes. The programming money is small potatoes, if you'll pardon the analogy, compared to the CAP, the Canadian agricultural partnership.
The whole food system needs to be viewed horizontally, as I said. It can't just be seen as agriculture and agri-food. You have to look at the health dimension, you have to look at the economic and social development, and you have to look at the environment.
I know it's hard to do. I used to work in government, too. It's hard to work horizontally. The structures are so vertical, but that is absolutely what's needed. If we're going to meet our climate change targets, if we want a healthy population, if we want economic resilience and true economic development that doesn't just benefit a few, if want real cross-cutting opportunities across the board for women, minorities and indigenous peoples, then we're going to have to operate systemically.
I think the program envelopes are going to have to adapt. Other countries have tried this. France has its new EGAlim law, although things can flop at the programming level. We have to integrate the policies and the program objectives.
I do have some criticism of the local food infrastructure fund. I thought the first round of those grants was too.... Why is the federal government making $25,000 awards? The cost of administration is higher than the actual award.
We have to look at transformational change in our system. That's where the federal government, with the provinces, the territories, indigenous leaders and others, have to have a role.
It's about everybody working together. It's hard to do, but we have no choice. All of these international reports have said the same thing: The time is now. We are not going to make it as a planet or a species if we don't redo the way we think about food and food systems.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Yes, I think our experiences over the last number of months really underline the need for that particular word, “resiliency”, and how we build it into our food systems.
That wraps up my time. I really appreciate your contributing to our report.
Thank you.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
You're always on time. Thanks for doing that.
We'll now move to the second round.
Mr. Lehoux, you have the floor for five minutes.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here with us this afternoon.
My first question is for Mr. Vielfaure.
Mr. Vielfaure, you spoke at length about problems related to the shortage of food processing workers. You even mentioned a rate of 10%. I imagine that some of these workers would have to be more skilled.
How are you planning to solve the problem? What role might the federal government play?
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas
We need to offer business training programs and encourage companies to improve the expertise and skills of their workers. It will require programs that are much better aligned with the sector.
We have foreign workers at the moment, but they tend to do the work that Canadians no longer want to do. Let's be honest about it.
We need programs to develop our expertise.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
That being the case, do we also need to encourage a major shift by the companies towards enhanced robotization?
I suspect that you're going to tell me that that would require financing.
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas
No. I would say that the food sector does not have many huge companies. I heard Ms. Yasmeen speak about it. There are in fact already lots of small businesses in the regions. For them, automation would be very difficult because of their size.
There are government programs for automation and Bonduelle Americas would like to take advantage of these. On the other hand, they are conditional upon creating jobs, which is completely ridiculous. We're told that they're going to provide funding for an automation program if we create jobs, just as we are in a program to reduce our workforce requirements. It's crazy. It means that we can't take advantage of these programs.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Ultimately, there are inconsistencies in the approach to labour shortages.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas
There is a solution.
As I said at the beginning, I'm the co-chair of the food processing industry roundtable. We want to establish a workforce committee, which would study all aspects of the question, including education and attracting young people to work in the food sector. It's important to look at the big picture.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Before the pandemic, there was already a labour problem. How can it be dealt with?
Even in Canada, we'll have to turn towards foreign labour. How can we go about it?
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas
We have no choice. We're going to have to continue to use foreign workers. The 10% limit will have to be removed, as has already happened in certain sectors.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Is this something you're raising on behalf of your food processing companies?
5:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Bonduelle Americas
Yes. The problem was exacerbated this year by COVID-19, but it was there already. It needs to end and we need to toss out the myth that Canadian businesses hire foreign workers to save money. It's not true. A foreign worker cost us a lot more than a local worker when you take all the expenses into account.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
Okay.
Thank you very much, Mr. Vielfaure.
I would now like to ask you a question, Ms. Yasmeen.
You spoke about smaller scale food processing, in our smaller communities, which raises the question of regulation and its application.
Does the Canadian Food Inspection Agency have enough resources at the moment? What's preventing smaller processing companies from starting up?
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Food Secure Canada
I've often heard it said that the regulatory aspects can be time-consuming and expensive for small players. I'm no expert on this matter, which goes somewhat beyond my organization's mandate, but I would encourage you to explore it thoroughly…
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
If processing capacity is to be increased on the smallest of scales, then the problem needs to be clearly analyzed so that action can be taken in the right places. That was what I meant by my question.
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Food Secure Canada
You're right. Rules are made to apply generally to everyone, except the smallest players. These rules, policies and programs were often introduced because certain interests prevailed…
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Lehoux Conservative Beauce, QC
A problem mentioned by small local abattoirs—because there are some even though few remain—is the problem they have getting in touch with agency inspectors. It might be necessary to operate on both levels at the same time.
5:25 p.m.
Executive Director, Food Secure Canada
That's right. I know that would be a huge change, but I'm aware of other witnesses who spoke about it. For example, there was the National Farmers Union, which mainly represents small farmers…
5:25 p.m.
Liberal