Agriculture Committee on Jan. 28th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Lehoux and Mr. Filiatrault.

Mr. Drouin, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank Mr. Filiatrault and Mrs. Lamb for being with us.

I will start with you, Mr. Filiatrault. I would like to understand why you favour local abattoirs rather than dealing with other abattoirs. I understand the dynamic you spoke of earlier, that small abattoirs are closer to their producers.

Is that the only reason?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

It is one reason, but there's also a safety issue. As I was saying, our business depends entirely on our supply. Of course, the fewer the players, the higher the risks. During the COVID-19 pandemic, we got calls from people saying that 200 of their workers were infected and they had to shut down their business for three weeks. That is a challenge for our supply teams. It is easier for us to work with someone who is closer to their supplier.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

All right.

We know that, in terms of labour, we need to work in partnership with the provinces. Even if the funding is there, we need to find the labour for our abattoirs. In my constituency, I have seen several abattoirs close down, not because they wanted to, but because they had no succession plan and no one was there to take over.

Have you experienced the same thing with your former suppliers?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

Labour is a challenge for everyone, but I believe we have ways to innovate. I have been to processing plants outside the country that are far more advanced and less labour intensive.

It's also a question of investment and innovation, that is obvious.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

On dairy farms, no one wanted to milk the cows. Robotics came in and solved that problem.

I would be curious to know your opinion on that. Automation can play a pretty important role in our economy, especially in your field. Is that the case?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

Absolutely. It is unavoidable. You have to face the facts: some jobs are attracting fewer and fewer workers. I don't feel it's going to get better and it's not going to go back to what it was. People are not going to move to the country. An abattoir may need 500 or 2,000 workers. Regardless of the number, those positions will be difficult to fill. So that is the situation I feel we have to work with.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That business model does not always rely on foreign workers, although there is an immediate needs. We should have a strategy for the next five or ten years so that we do not always rely on foreign workers. They are important, but, as you said, innovation is needed, and other countries are much more advanced in that area.

You said that COVID-19 hit hard because Olymel suspended operations for two weeks. We have all read the news, and that is kind of why we are doing this study. The added risk of COVID-19 did not exist before.

Before COVID-19, did you have a good relationship with Olymel and the big abattoirs?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

I do not want to say that I don't have a good relationship with them. They are still partners, but they are very big and we represent a tiny part of their production. Our relationship is good, but it's hard to make demands on a company of that size. As far as the traceability of their products is concerned, it is a matter of choice. It is not true that they do not have the information; they just don't want to give it to us. In addition, when changes to the products are needed, it takes time, but it's part of the game.

It's not that they don't cooperate at all. But they still have their job to do, which is to slaughter chickens.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, thank you.

Mrs. Lamb, being from Ontario, I can certainly feel the Nova Scotian love coming from you. We feel it through Kody once in awhile, too.

Way at the beginning, you mentioned value-added processing. I'm just trying to understand what you meant by that. Was it further processing for hogs or was it a specific kind of processing that you were looking for back in Nova Scotia?

[Margaret Lamb]

That was referring to our business. We just were growing hogs at one point, which went into an abattoir that did the further processing and selling. We started selling a side of pork on a Saturday morning. We started doing ham and then bacon.

After I retired from teaching around 15 years ago, we built a larger facility. We now make ham and bacon and we do fully cooked products. We've done all kinds of sausages. We have a hot dog that we call a “Jimmie Dog”, which was made to meet a school nutrition program. There are no fillers or anything in our products—no MSG or all those good things. We have probably about 200 SKUs of product.

We grow the pork and we process it. We just don't have an abattoir.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

On this one, colleagues, I am not a hundred per cent sure. My timer stopped, but I think you got your five minutes. I don't know if anyone else timed this one, but I think it was close. Unless I hear otherwise, we'll move on.

I apologize for that.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Filiatrault, let's continue our discussion.

I'd like to hear about the logistical benefits of buying locally. That model seems important to you.

What comparative advantage does it deliver to the business?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

It provides us with security, which, after all, is quite significant.

For example, I just transferred our lettuce supply. It used to come from California, now it's grown in Mirabel, 365 days a year, even at -28 degrees Celsius. So nothing is impossible. We have no losses due to transportation, we are in direct contact with the company, and the product and packaging are made for us. So the advantages are many.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

So it would be in your interests to have access to other processors. We are talking about your business, but we could include other small or medium-sized businesses as well.

If the federal government were to put enabling conditions in place, do you think there would be any takers in the industry? Earlier, with Mrs. Lamb, we spoke of guarantees or very long-term, low-interest loans.

Would you be interested in that move toward integration?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

By all means, we've been interested in it for a long time. We try to do it with partners. As I was saying, 85% of our supply is local and direct, whether from families or businesses. Of course, we would like to do more vertical integration if it were possible. That's something the company is looking to do.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay. So some people would be interested.

My last question is about interprovincial barriers. You said earlier that, when you needed to source elsewhere, you resigned yourself to going to the United States. That's sad, though. We have heard from several witnesses about how difficult interprovincial trade can be.

What is the problem? What needs to change?

[Nicolas Filiatrault]

As I told you, technically, it's not a matter of regulation. It's hard for me to tell you that a specific regulation has to change. In principle, I should be able to get my supplies elsewhere. Why can't I do that? It's a little hard to explain. I am not a processing expert, but I can tell you that I personally made dozens of calls a few years ago and I ended up applying for import quotas.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Filiatrault.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Now we have Mr. MacGregor for two and a half minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Lamb, you were mentioning to my colleague Monsieur Drouin the value-added products and the range of products you produce. We've had a lot of discussion lately about the code of conduct of major retailers and the concentration of power in the marketplace. Have you had any negative interactions with retailers, such as the hidden fees that are given to processors about where they can place their products or anything like that? Have you had any of those experiences?

[Margaret Lamb]

I'm going to say that I have not, because I'm only provincially inspected. I don't get into the large retailers, where that is one of their criteria for getting on their shelves.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Even provincially within just the Nova Scotia chains, it's been okay. That hasn't impacted you.

[Margaret Lamb]

We aren't in the Sobeys and that. We would be in Pete's Frootique. We go and just sell directly to them. They've been great to work with.