Evidence of meeting #38 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was soil.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Louis.
Mr. Perron, you now have the floor for two and a half minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Gilvesy, if you agree, we'll pick up where we left off.
In your introduction, you talked about aspects that are important to me, namely flexibility and the importance of recognizing local innovation and creation. How can the Canadian government help in this regard?
4:25 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, ALUS
I think we have to recognize the power of grassroots solutions.
I've seen so many creative solutions from across the countryside where we operate, where farmers from P.E.I. are terracing their fields to hold the water and the topsoil on their fields by using fast-growing grasses, then harvesting those grasses to feed the cattle while the manure goes back on the field to feed the fields.
There are ways to recognize that grassroots solutions matter. There are a lot of relatively simple things that people with their hands in the dirt for a lifetime can offer as enormously powerful solutions.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Concretely, Mr. Gilvesy, how can we integrate this into a Canada‑wide program? Generally speaking, we try to base ourselves on science and use validated methods. In your opinion, what mechanism could be put in place so that people can submit the innovations they have designed and have them measured scientifically?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, ALUS
Our program is very good at aggregating within our catchment areas.
We are entering into a moment of scale for our organization where we will grow more rapidly across the country, but of course, it takes a very big listening ear to open yourself up to all these solutions.
4:30 p.m.
Bloc
Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
In terms of flexibility, when someone proposes a solution, the scope of the project would be measured and the government would use a sort of scoring system to determine its effectiveness.
Is that your idea, more or less?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, ALUS
There's research that we are doing to measure the performance of these things, including our IMWEBs platform, including calculating carbon in the future and including counting biodiversity through different research platforms, so yes, the answer is that we try to apply the research to all these innovative ideas as quickly as we possibly can.
However, know this: One of the principles of ALUS is that there must be some scientific evidence to support the activities that we're going to do, so having something rooted in science is a pretty good place to begin.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Gilvesy and Monsieur Perron.
Now we have Mr. MacGregor for six and a half minutes.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Alistair MacGregor NDP Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Barnes, you said in your opening comments that it's good business to be environmentally sustainable. I think we've seen that backed up by ALUS saying that, by employing some of these ecosystem-saving projects on your land, it does have a material benefit in how a farm operates in its output.
I also wanted to look at the consumer demand side of things, because, in one of our previous meetings, we had Danone as a witness, and they were talking about how they were investing a considerable sum of their own private money to help farmers transition to regenerative agriculture. They said that it was primarily because consumers are looking to have a lot more information on how their food is grown, the techniques that are used and so on. That's why Danone saw that as a smart investment, because of the consumer demand.
In some of the relations with some of the companies that you do business with, are you seeing a trend in that direction? Is there anything you can tell us about that?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Farmers Edge Inc.
Yes, this is where I think technology is going to be a huge factor, and it could enhance Canada's lead. The consumer today wants to have more connectivity to who's growing their food. Historically, there have been multiple different parties between the consumer and the farmer. Technology essentially allows the consumer to have that direct relationship, understand how the food is grown, where it's grown, how it's produced and know what the carbon footprint is.
I think to be able to implement that type of digital infrastructure, create that connectivity to the consumer and create that trust, technology will enable the consumer to trust that. If Canada is the leader in that space, they're going to pull companies, whether they be General Mills, PepsiCo, Danone, McCain or Maple Leaf, to do business with those Canadian farms.
I just think it's a significant opportunity that shouldn't be overlooked right now. If we don't take advantage of it, I can guarantee you that the Brazilians are moving. We operate into that market. In the U.S.—people might find this strange—there's more openness towards some of these changes in management, as there is in Australia, so this opportunity is time limited. I would really suggest that we focus on how to take advantage.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Barnes.
Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.
That will conclude our first panel. I'd like to thank, from ALUS, Mr. Bryan Gilvesy, and also, from Farmers Edge, Mr. Wade Barnes and Mr. Bruce Ringrose. Thank you so much for appearing.
To the members, it will be a quick return, because we're a little bit tight on time. After two minutes, we'll be right back.
We'll just suspend for two minutes. Thank you.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
We'll go on with our second hour, as we work on connecting Ms. Donnelly.
I want to welcome, from the Canadian Cattlemen's Association, Mr. Duane Thompson, chair of the environment committee. Also, we have Fawn Jackson, director of policy and international affairs.
Welcome.
From Terramera Inc., we have Aldyen Donnelly, special adviser, carbon markets.
Hopefully we can get your sound corrected.
In the meantime, we'll start with an opening statement from the Canadian Cattlemen's Association for up to seven and a half minutes.
The floor is yours. Thank you.
4:45 p.m.
Fawn Jackson Director, Policy and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee to discuss the environmental contributions of Canada’s beef sector.
My name is Fawn Jackson, and I’m the director of policy and international affairs with the CCA. With me today is Duane Thompson, a beef producer from Saskatchewan and the chair of CCA's environment committee.
The CCA represents Canada's 60,000 beef producers. The beef industry contributes $22 billion to Canadian GDP while supporting 348,000 jobs, but of great importance to our conversation today is that the beef industry is also a hidden gem when it comes to the environment and green jobs. While perhaps not as well-known outside of this committee, which knows this, in fact beef production in Canada is one of the best tools we have to reach our shared conservation goals and climate change goals, while also providing good-paying jobs for Canadian families.
Canada is a leader when it comes to sustainable beef production. The Canadian Roundtable for Sustainable Beef was created to advance sustainability within the beef industry and includes a collaborative community of stakeholders. Through the CRSB, Canada was the first to create a certified sustainable beef framework, which is used today by smaller direct marketers, as well as companies such as McDonald’s and Chop Steakhouse. Since Canada’s leadership, now other jurisdictions have also replicated the CRSB model, and we're pleased to share that.
I am pleased to have Duane Thompson join me today to offer further insights into how beef production can be a key partner in achieving Canada’s environmental goals.
Please go ahead, Duane.
4:45 p.m.
Duane Thompson Chair, Environment Committee, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Thank you, Fawn.
Our family runs a beef cattle and cropping operation near Kelliher, Saskatchewan, northeast of Regina. We take pride in caring for the environment as part of our role as ranchers. In this country, cattle producers care for 35 million acres of temperate native grasslands, and while it doesn't often make the headlines, this grassland ecosystem is disappearing faster than the Amazon rainforest. Since the 1970s we've seen a staggering loss of nearly 75% of native grasslands through land conversion.
When the grasslands are lost, so too are the species that depend on the grasslands for their habitat. There are currently over 60 species at risk in Canada's grasslands, species that only exist because of continued beef production on native grasslands. Beef farmers and ranchers work closely with conservation partners on grassland habitat and biodiversity maintenance and enhancement to protect the grassland ecosystem. Cattle grazing and the continued presence of livestock on these working landscapes support the conservation of species that depend on native grasslands, like the greater sage-grouse, the burrowing owl and many songbirds.
In the North American Bird Conservation Initiative, 2019, “The State of Canada's Birds” report, it notes that Canada's grassland birds have declined by 57% since 1970, and emphasize that “Beneficial grazing on public and private lands is critical for the creation and maintenance of grassland bird habitat.” As a conservation action, the report recommends supporting sustainable range-fed beef, including beneficial pasture and hay management. Without beef production, these threatened native grasslands are at risk of conversion and these at-risk species suffer the consequences.
Since 2015, our industry has worked through Environment and Climate Change Canada's species-at-risk partnerships on agricultural lands, known as SARPAL. We work directly with beef producers to promote and enhance habitat for a multitude of species at risk. SARPAL has proven to be a great environmental program through collaboration with the beef sector and conservation organizations.
We work closely with our conservation partners, including Ducks Unlimited Canada, Nature Conservancy of Canada, Birds Canada and others to promote and deliver the beneficial management conservation solutions on the ground for our producers. Recently, Ducks Unlimited Canada launched its Beef Belongs website, highlighting the critical role beef cattle play in the health and enhancement of grasslands, wetlands and soil biodiversity in Canada. In its words, “Raising beef in Canada is good for the environment.”
Grazing by livestock is essential for the complex native grasslands to flourish. These grasslands left without grazing are essentially lost by natural progression to habitats with a lower conversion value, for example, brush and tree encroachment. By generating revenue through sustainable grazing practices, ranchers help ensure native grasslands are not converted to other uses.
With respect to climate change, rangelands and wetlands managed by beef producers in Canada are carbon sinks that store, conservatively, about 1.5 billion tonnes of carbon. The Canadian beef industry's greenhouse gas emissions account for only 2.4% of Canadian total greenhouse gas emissions and 0.4% of global greenhouse gas emissions.
Our industry's greenhouse gas footprint is less than half that of the world average and one of the lowest in the world. Today, the beef industry is producing more beef with less greenhouse gas emissions, less land and less water. The reductions in the beef industry's environmental footprint have largely come through genetics, animal health and technologies that improve production efficiencies.
We're very proud of this, but we're not sitting on our laurels. Producers across Canada continue to innovate and look for new ways to be sustainable and help the environment.
In British Columbia, cattle producers are conducting pilot studies on the use of cattle grazing to reduce fuel loads under forest canopies to mitigate the risk of wildfires. The studies are developing virtual fencing technology that will be an innovative game-changer for rotational grazing strategies, wildfire management and the enhancement of species habitat in remote grazing landscapes.
Food loss and waste continues to be a large discussion in Canada’s food system. Cattle are wonderful upcyclers. For example, the by-products of the grains we produce on our farm, such as the stems and stalks after harvesting grain, can be fed to cattle, and so can grains that are headed for food markets but perhaps don’t meet the high standards needed for the grain market because they are spoiled or have been heated.
This example goes much further than within our own farm. Cattle also eat by-products of wine and beer production, wilted produce and by-products of canola production. This last year when COVID hit, there were many potatoes that weren’t going to restaurants and they were able to be fed to cattle instead of going to the landfills.
Last, it's worth noting that in the past year, the Canadian beef industry has set ambitious 2030 goals related to greenhouse gas and carbon sequestration. Among other targets, our industry has committed to safeguarding the existing 1.5 billion tonnes of carbon stored on landscapes. We will also sequester an additional 3.4 million tonnes of carbon every year to reduce primary production greenhouse gas emission intensity by 33% in 2030.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Thompson.
We'll give it a try with Ms. Donnelly. Hopefully, it'll work.
You have up to seven and a half minutes, if you want to give it a try. We'll see how it comes out.
4:50 p.m.
Aldyen Donnelly Special Adviser, Carbon Markets, Terramera Inc.
You could just pretend it's not working and kick me out if you don't like what I'm saying.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
We'd certainly like to have you for your testimony and questions. If you want to give it a try, hopefully, it will work.
4:50 p.m.
Special Adviser, Carbon Markets, Terramera Inc.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and committee members, for the invitation to speak with you today.
My name is Aldyen Donnelly and I'm joining you remotely from my home, which is in the traditional territory of the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh nations.
I am the senior adviser, carbon markets, at Terramera, a B.C.-based ag-tech company. I am also a co-founder and major shareholder of Nori, Inc., a three and a half year old blockchain-based start-up that is building a transparent, credible and farmer-accessible carbon removal marketplace in the United States. Nori's head office is in Seattle, Washington.
Also, from the mid-1990s through 2000, I was the founder of the Greenhouse Emissions Management Consortium, or GEMCo. GEMCo's membership included, over time, 14 of Canada's then 20 largest corporate greenhouse gas emitters. In that capacity, I raised the private funding that spawned the launch of Canada's prairie soil carbon balance project, a private sector and public sector partnership under the AAFC's original matching investment initiative. In October 1999, acting on behalf of the Canadian large emitters, I signed the world's first agreement to purchase emission reduction credits from farmers. I guess that means I've been around this for a while.
Terramera's work centres on how to enable farmers to unlock the intelligence in nature to inform their land management decisions. We develop software and analytical tools to empower our food and fibre producers to increase soil health and nutrient productivity, mitigate climate change risk, realize more stable on-farm financial returns and build a more resilient soil layer for future generations. Building up soil organic carbon stocks is one of the very few measures that we can pursue that both mitigates the risks of climate change while building a natural system that will also be more resilient and productive in the event of climate change.
I wish to stress that it's essential for Canadian policy-makers and influencers to embrace this opportunity to show the rest of the world a new path forward to the realization of a true market for natural climate solutions. Canada led the world with the Montreal protocol. This is our next chance to lead the world to essential and workable climate risk mitigation and adaptation solutions.
According to the UN Food and Agricultural Organization, Canada ranks among the top five countries in the world, along with Russia, the U.S., China and Brazil, for potential to draw heat-trapping gases out of the atmosphere when the recovered carbon is stored in soils and root systems. Some assessments rank Canada number two.
A recently published analysis by leading Canadian scientists suggests that our croplands and grazing lands have the capacity to sequester an incremental 78 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year by 2030. That's 25% to 35% of the nationwide reduction we must achieve relative to actual 2019 emission levels to meet our 2030 Paris Agreement goals.
What's the reality? After 18 years of experiments, the voluntary and compliance offset credit market experiments that have been launched in other nations have failed to mobilize any significant investment in greenhouse gas reduction and sequestration. That's across all sectors, not just agriculture.
Since 2002, all existing voluntary and compliance offset initiatives have combined to issue and retire less than 2.5 billion credits. That sounds like a lot, but even if 100% of these credits had the true underlying value of one tonne carbon dioxide equivalent reduced or sequestered, those retired credits equate to only 10% to 15% of one year's worth of the greenhouse gas emissions discharged by the top 50 corporate emitters in the world, so this is a statistically insignificant experiment so far.
Canadian policy-makers and stakeholders must work together to show a new path forward. This can be Canada's next Montreal protocol moment. It is time for us to step up and show the world what getting this right looks like, as we did when it came to figuring out how to work out of our supply chains the use of substances the release of which were causing the hole in our ozone layer.
Canada is positioned to develop and demonstrate the world's first efficient and truly functional natural climate solutions voluntary and compliance markets. We are trying to foster new markets that reward ecosystem services, not more underfunded subsidy programs that dictate land management practices to farmers.
I do have in my opening remarks six specific recommendations on what we need to do, but I think I'll cut off here to save time and invite you to look at my documentation when it's available to you.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you very much, Ms. Donnelly. So far, so good, I think.
We'll go to our question round and we'll start with Ms. Rood. I also want to welcome Mr. Alex Ruff as part of the panel. I believe you will be sharing your time.
Go ahead, Ms. Rood, for six minutes.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for appearing here this afternoon.
Ms. Donnelly, last week we heard officials from Environment Canada say that farmers should only be given credit for practices that they have not already put in place, but I believe you said that early adopters of CO2 mitigation and capture should not be penalized.
To be clear, I'm wondering if you agree with Environment Canada officials that farmers should not be given credit for things they have already done or would have done.
Could you maybe comment on how a carbon credit market should be set up to give farmers financial incentives for capturing carbon in the soil?
5 p.m.
Special Adviser, Carbon Markets, Terramera Inc.
I must respond by saying no, I do not agree with the position that farmers should not get credit for early action, but I also totally empathize with the officials and understand why that's their starting place. We just have to give them the tools they need to make sure that's not where they end up.
There are a couple of things. First, in terms of solution, in the Nori marketplace any decision you make or anyone makes will be a compromise. We surveyed a bunch of very interested market buyers and secured support among that buyer community for the idea that we would issue credits, and there are two tests. For soil carbon, a stock change is arising from changes in practices that might have been implemented any time after December 31, 1999. I like Bryan Gilvesy's Kyoto 1997 start date a lot. We picked 1999 in the U.S. just because we found we had data availability issues before that and that was our binding constraint, but we also said we would only issue a maximum of five years' worth of grandfather credits to any project.
When you're doing that design, separate the question of what the “not before” date is for the investment that triggers the incremental carbon stock change versus how many years of crediting you are getting. Any decision we'll make will be arbitrary, but I think it's really important that we struggle with that and reach consensus on a decision that does give early adopters credit.
The other point I'd like to make is that in every—outside Canada, anyway—variation on cap and trade rules, any oil producer or refinery operator that has an emissions intensity that's lower than their peers gets surplus and marketable allowances in exchange for that performance, even if they have been performing in that manner for 25 years.
Why would we give credit for early action to oil refineries and not to farmers? I don't get that one.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Lianne Rood Conservative Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON
Thank you very much.
I'll cede my time to Mr. Ruff.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thanks for having me here at the agriculture committee. My questions will be directed to the Canadian Cattlemen's Association.
First off, I'd like to say I agree with your testimony, as do a multitude of farmers in my riding of Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound. I'd say are the best beef producers in eastern Canada—just so I don't get into a fight here with my western colleagues.
In your testimony, you talked about how essential providing habitat for species at risk that rely on those grasslands is by our beef producers. I'd like to give you a minute to further expand on how those pastures benefit both the species, biodiversity in general and even the health of the grazing cattle.
5 p.m.
Director, Policy and International Relations, Canadian Cattlemen's Association
Thanks. I'm going to take some of the questions, and then pass it over to Duane.
Certainly what we see is that, when grazing is done well, we're really able to stack the benefits that come with that. You could have a biodiversity benefit, a wetland restoration, flood mitigation, all of these different stacking benefits, and I think that's really exciting, particularly to those in the market who are certainly interested in greenhouse gases but are also interested in the rippling effects that go along with them.
Australia, for example, had a project with Microsoft where they purchased carbon offsets, but then also had these biodiversity pieces that went through it as well.
I would say that it's been really exciting over the last number of years, where conservation organizations and the farmer and rancher community have really hit our stride in how we work together. Bringing the expertise of the producer, who knows that land, and the expertise of biologists and riparian specialists together has just really resulted in some amazing results. I think we need to keep on replicating that.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thanks so much for that response, Ms. Jackson.
My next question would be for either you or Mr. Thompson. You mentioned how important beef farmers are for carbon sequestration, but unfortunately, that's not necessarily what ends up in the headlines or in the media sometimes.
What can we do as parliamentarians to help combat and dispel the bad headlines and just re-emphasize the importance of cattle producers for climate change and for the environment in general?