Agriculture Committee on March 24th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Ms. Dickson Olmstead.

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First, I would like to thank all the witnesses for being with us this afternoon.

Mr. Caron, I'd like to continue discussing foreign worker mobility. You are asking for flexibility to create some sort of cooperative of smaller operations, which would allow them to make worker transfer agreements. Some farmers have also often told us about the current raiding problem. It draws some workers into other sectors.

Could you shed some light on the danger that comes with that and the difference between the two situations?

[Martin Caron]

Right now, we're facing a labour shortage in all sectors, and agricultural workers are not the only ones being targeted for raids. They are also happening in processing, lumber, construction and other industries.

We see workers arrive here with a contract with the farmers who hire them, and then they are raided and they decide to leave the farm. It puts farms at risk, and the farmers have to start from scratch again. Farmers can't seek redress for the time and money they put into the process.

Having said that, you do understand that we're only talking about those cases. We don't tolerate farmers or employers neglecting workers. Workers must be allowed to leave these places.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

What would need to change in the current regulations to stop this from happening, while also giving you the flexibility in the farming community to occasionally transfer workers from one operation to another?

[Martin Caron]

Employment contracts should be recognized, along with the sectors with which they are associated. In other words, when temporary foreign workers or seasonal workers decide to apply for a farm labour program, it should be made clear that they must remain in the farm labour sector.

I would also say that farmers need a redress process to make it easier for them and to keep them from having to start from scratch should an employee decide to leave.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I feel you are being very reasonable, especially in suggesting that you apply for LMIAs every three years. Personally, I would prefer it to be every five years, but we will go with your requests.

You're quite pragmatic. You make simple recommendations in your brief. For example, you recommend reducing the number of pages in the form from 12 to 6. That's music to my ears.

Who have you recommended this new form to?

Could you submit the form to the committee so that we can include it with our report?

[Martin Caron]

We can certainly submit it to the committee. As you will see, we kept the really important questions and got rid of those we found redundant. We were able to eliminate 24 questions and six pages.

Like I said, as farmers we're often asked to take action against climate change and make our farming operations more efficient. I feel this form can be redesigned to simplify it and we can still meet the requirements of the Canadian government and other countries.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

If you have any other great recommendations like this, I urge you to submit them.

I need a clarification on the third point you made.

Can you elaborate on the removal of certain goods—you mentioned the maple syrup industry—from the National Commodity List?

[Martin Caron]

As far as forage and rabbit production are concerned, some commodities are still not included on the list. Farmers often mention that to us. That's why we need to work on defining “primary agriculture”.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

So that's very easy. Removing one little thing will make it so much easier for you.

Am I right?

[Martin Caron]

I think everyone can agree on that. It's just a basic administrative change.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'd like to briefly go back to something you mentioned earlier but didn't have time to explain: enhancing the AgriStability program to increase the margin from 70% to 85%. This has been discussed for a long time, and some provinces are against the idea. However, there is a strong consensus on this issue in Quebec. Quebec is asking the federal government and provinces that are willing to do so to move forward on this.

What is your opinion on this issue?

[Martin Caron]

The current margin is 30%. We're asking to go back to the 2013 margin, which was 85%. That's really critical.

People are worried about operating margins right now, given the volatility and the impact of cost overruns due to inflation.

We already have a program and there's no need to reinvent it. We need to use this program, but we must raise the margin to 85%.

I will give you a quick example. A producer or farm that averages $60,000 in revenue and $50,000 in allowable expenses generates a margin of $100,000. Let's say expenses go up 8%. That's an additional $40,000 in expenses. The margin is no longer $100,000, but $60,000. Under the current program, the farmer would only get $7,000. If the program were enhanced by raising the margin to 85%, the farmer would get $17,500. That's quite—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Caron, but your time is up.

Mr. MacGregor, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My questions will be for Monsieur Caron and Mr. Campbell.

I want to talk about your experiences and the experience of your members with our transportation networks.

My riding of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford is on the west coast of Vancouver Island. I'm on the coast, so I see a lot of the bulk carriers at anchorage as they wait for their turn at the port of Vancouver.

If we look at the statutes we have in place, like the Canada Transportation Act and the Canadian Transportation Agency, is more needed to unify the information that your producers are getting from our railways and port authorities and from the freighters themselves?

Mr. Campbell, I'll maybe start with you.

Have we lost everyone?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

To our witnesses, if you can hear us, it looks like we've had a bit of a technical difficulty. Bear with us as we get things up and running.

We're going to suspend for one or two minutes, and we'll be back momentarily. Hold tight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

It looks like we're back. I'm sorry for those technical difficulties. I'm told it's across all committee rooms right now.

Mr. MacGregor, you had just started. You were at about 40 seconds in, but given the technical difficulties—I'm feeling very generous today—I will let you start at six minutes again.

We'll go over to you.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is going to for Mr. Campbell and Monsieur Caron.

The preamble I was leading with was that I wanted to get the point of view from your organizations and your members on our transportation sector as a whole, because our railways and our port authorities all fall under federal jurisdiction, of course.

What I want to know is whether, beyond the railways, we need the federal government to step in to ensure your members are getting timely information from rail, from the port authorities and from the freighters that are lying at wait to receive your product.

If there's anything you can share with this committee in terms of the recommendations we should be making to the federal government, that would be greatly appreciated.

[Bill Campbell]

Do you wish for me to go first?

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Yes, Mr. Campbell. You can start first, please.

[Bill Campbell]

I'm getting a bit of an echo here, but I will try to work through that if I can.

Transport Canada announced last year an active vessel traffic management program. It's unclear how the Government of Canada intends to improve efficiency at port. Delays at port have a cascading affect on the supply chain.

We currently have $25,000 to $35,000 a day per vessel of demurrage charges when these vessels are sitting without product to load. These costs are passed on through the grain terminals and grain companies, and eventually are borne by the producers. They pay these demurrage charges.

With regard to a plan, we need to have a coordinated effort between railways, loading facilities and vessels so that they have the product in time to load it. We should utilize financial penalties to class 1 carriers if they are unable to fulfill their grain plan commitments. We need to ensure that these vessels are loaded in a timely fashion, as sales are made with commitments to other countries.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Monsieur Caron, can you provide some feedback on that as well?

[Martin Caron]

Thank you for the question.

Transportation is a major consideration in agriculture. We need only think of the impact the 2019 CN strike had on farmers. That strike led to millions of dollars in losses.

We need to clearly understand the issues associated with delayed shipments. We also need contingency plans for similar situations. We need to know what action to take so that we can respond quickly. If the rail system is down, farmers all across Canada have to deal with the consequences.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

I will continue with you, Monsieur Caron.

In your opening statement, you were talking a bit about the volatility in prices. Of course, we need to talk a lot about the inflationary pressures of climate change and how that is going to continue to affect fuel prices well into the future. I think that the war in Ukraine is a sneak peek into what our future holds.

If we're centring on the theme of resiliency—we conducted a study in the previous Parliament on increasing processing capacity in our local communities—is there anything you would like to see our committee recommend to the government in terms of increasing the resiliency of our communities and having better processing capacity so that we can better withstand these shocks that we know will be coming in the decades ahead?

[Martin Caron]

There absolutely must be measures in place in case of problems.

As I mentioned in my opening remarks, some programs would at least restore the situation with regard to operating margins. There are huge cost increases right now. Mr. Campbell mentioned input costs and so on, and I would add diesel. In the past year, it has increased by 24%. So in two years, there's been a 51% increase.

There's also a need to think about putting in place programs and solutions that will contribute to agricultural resilience. We will be asking for support in that regard. We find this kind of support is much greater in the United States and Europe, particularly around sustainable development and climate change. I think we need to have that ecological vision.

As producers, we have to remain competitive, because we are in the same markets as the United States and Europe.