Agriculture Committee on May 30th, 2024

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'm not very keen on this yes-or-no stuff. Did I know what was going in the budget before it went in the budget? No.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

You didn't know. You yourself, Minister, did not know this was going to be in budget 2024.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I do not write the budget.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much. That's interesting.

You did speak of the younger generation. I met with 4-H Canada and that was fantastic. Do you know how much third party consultant fees have increased in your department since 2015? That's the increase in the cost of third party consultants.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Again, that's a very important question.

I'm quite sure we use outsourced consultants, but being a departmental issue, I would have to ask my capable deputy to respond to that.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Actually, I can respond for you, Mr. Minister. In the Department of Agriculture, third party consultant fees have increased by 95% since 2015.

Do you know what the employee count has increased by in the Department of Agriculture?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I don't have the exact figures with me.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Would your deputy know by chance?

[Stefanie Beck, Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

I don't have the exact number either, but it would be in the hundreds.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Third party consulting has increased by 95%, and your employee FTE count has increased by hundreds, you said. Do you think farm families are getting value for that?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What I can tell you, my good friend, is that my job as Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.... I've been in and out of agriculture—mostly in it—since the government was formed.

Back in 2016, we expected to have 74 billion dollars' worth of exports from this country by 2025. We now have just under $100 billion in agriculture and agri-food exports from this country. We have to make sure we have the people in place to make sure the agricultural sector has the supports it needs to continue to supply the sustainable food it has. That is vitally important, but I need to tell you, too, that if we do not have sustainable food, we do not export.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I appreciate that. I agree that our agriculture is a world-class product. I just ask these questions because there has been an increase in spending in various areas, but you have seen cuts in your department. For example, the foundational science and research initiative was cut by $1.3 million in your budget. When I met with 4-H Canada, I heard your department, sir, has cut funding for 4-H for the next generation. When I met with their team when they were doing citizen engagement on the Hill, I heard they were quite concerned that theirs might be one of the programs that get cut.

As to my question for you, you could not find any savings when it came to third party consultants, but you cut funding that is going to produce the next generation of farmers in our country. How do you explain that?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

A number of programs have changed. I think you're referring to 4-H and other programs.

I was a 4-H member. It was probably the first program I ever entered into that allowed me to learn public speaking and other ways of life. It was a very valuable program. All of these programs are vitally important.

I can assure you, my good friend, that I'll do everything to make sure that these programs.... The youth programs and Agriculture in the Classroom do so much to encourage people to understand exactly what the agricultural sector is all about. We need farmers—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Can you return this funding to 4-H?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—but we also need people involved in the agricultural sector. I will continue to work to make sure they are there.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Will you be able to restore the funding to 4-H?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're at time, Mr. Steinley. The minister was trying to defer to the deputy minister on a query you raised, which you have since given this committee.

Deputy Minister, if you have anything to add, as the chair, I'll let you, because you didn't have that opportunity.

[Stefanie Beck]

We might get into it a bit later. Of course, there have been adjustments to programs across the board, but in particular for internal services and third party consultants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much.

We'll now turn to Ms. Taylor Roy for up to five minutes.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister MacAulay and your colleagues, for being here today to answer questions about the main estimates.

As you know, I'm a great supporter of Agriculture and Agri-Food's initiatives in the plant-based protein sector. I noticed additional funding of over $11 million was announced for Pulse Canada under the AgriScience program. That reflects our government's continued commitment to the development of plant-based proteins in Canada.

I'm sure you know the potential for Canadian farmers and for this industry is $25 billion going forward. It's a huge sector for us. I believe it gives us a way to grow our incredible agricultural sector and create wealth, but also lessen the impact of emissions on global food systems and help secure our food chain, bringing more processing and manufacturing back home.

I wonder if you could comment on what you think the expected economic impacts of the investment in the pulse sector will be. Can you comment on Canada's position as a leading pulse exporter as well?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I certainly appreciate your question and how important plant-based protein is in agriculture.

Plant-based protein is so vitally important, and it's a big export commodity. We will continue to work on that and on the pulse side of the issues, as you are fully aware. I very much appreciate your input on this issue, because it's so vitally important.

We exported nearly 2 million tonnes of lentils, valued at $2.3 billion, which is part of the close to 100 billion dollars' worth of.... It's all part of agriculture and it's all part of feeding the world. It's all part of sustainable food production too, so it is vitally important. The money is being well spent, and we will continue with that.

Our biggest customer is India. We have continued to expand our production and exports over the last number of years. As I said before, we felt that we'd be at $75 billion even later than this time, and we're at just about $100 billion. We've done that because of the investments we've made as a government. You have to make investments to make sure that whatever sector.... The pulse sector is so vitally important, and there's such a big demand for it worldwide. I can assure you that we will continue to invest in this area.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

In addition to being able to export pulses and crops, there's also the opportunity for us to increase agri-food manufacturing in Canada. This is because a lot of goods are exported and then we import the finished products to use in some of the plant-based proteins. There is a shift globally in our consumption in the energy sector, and it's also happening in the agriculture sector with more plant-based proteins.

Is Agriculture Canada working with ISED at all? Is there any discussion about investing in more manufacturing and food processing in Canada so that we can take these crops and get the value added here in Canada?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The answer to that is yes, indeed.

A prime example, which I was so pleased about, is crushing canola. A few years ago, we weren't doing that at all, and now we're doing substantially more and need to do a lot more. No matter what sector of agriculture it is, it needs investment to expand, which we are doing.

I can assure you that other parts of the world are doing exactly what we're doing, so there's a continual push to make sure that we can feed the world with what they want. That's why plant-based food is so vitally important. That's also why it's so important that we help take care of the pulse industry—we don't take care of it; the farmers do—and make sure we give them the opportunity to expand and to process everything they possibly can.

I fully support, in any way we can, adding value to whatever product we have in this country so that the money stays in this country instead of going to other countries. I'm sure other countries are doing that too, but we need to do more of it.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Right now at the environment committee we're doing a study on sustainable finance. The taxonomy looks at investments from financial institutions in industries that are considered to be advancing our goals when it comes to net zero by 2030 and 2050. I'm thinking the investments in these kinds of facilities, which obviously have a very large impact on helping us meet our environmental goals, could be attractive for a lot of the financial institutions looking for these kinds of investments.

I'm just wondering if—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Ms. Taylor Roy, I apologize. I was going to let you finish that thought. I gave you an extra 30 seconds. Unfortunately, I have to be fair to my other colleagues and make sure I disburse the time accordingly.