Agriculture Committee on May 30th, 2024

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and all the witnesses for being with us today.

Minister, I have many questions and, if possible, I'd like short answers.

You won't be surprised if I talk about AgriRecovery, which the Quebec government requested be activated in November and it has yet to happen. Can you give us a date this morning, to give producers hope?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, Mr. Perron.

I have no date, but we have discussed this a number of times.

First of all, I appreciate your concern. I also appreciate your input. You brought farmers up to Ottawa. I think everybody involved in these issues is vitally important. You simply make the situation easier when you do that.

The fact is, as you're fully aware, it's a federal-provincial program. It's the provinces and the Government of Canada together. The provinces provide the information and the Government of Canada combines it.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Minister, but I've heard that part before.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I work as fast as I can, but everything has to be done efficiently. I'd get a little touch-up at this table, probably, if I didn't, so we have to do it right. I also fully understand how vitally important it is to get the money in the farmers' hands as quickly as possible because they need it.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

All right.

You're talking about increased exports, farm income and sales; however, net incomes of farmers are expected to drop by 85% this year. That hasn't happened in ages and the situation is critical. When we see that a program like AgriRecovery—the program of last resort, when everything else has failed—takes 18 months on average to be activated, I think that you'll agree with me in saying that something is wrong here and that it's too slow. The risk-management programs need to be reviewed post-haste.

As part of our study on the issues in the horticultural sector, witnesses talked about an emergency fund. Producers made clear requests in August 2023, almost a year ago, but they've received no response from the federal government. Is anyone working on this? Is there anything you can tell us this morning?

Also, are you going to start reviewing agricultural insurance programs right away? We can't wait until 2028. You know better than me how it works: The AgriStability program does the Olympic average for the last five years, but they haven't been good years, so it's going to be quite an average. The programs don't work anymore. They need to be overhauled post-haste.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, I agree with you that it's too long. The fact is, it's a federal-provincial program. The province puts the information together and we evaluate it. We both have criteria to follow. We have to continue to do that.

As you're aware, we will be having a meeting where I expect to meet your minister, Mr. Lamontagne, who I must say has been very good to work with. However, we want to get the cheques out, as I'm sure he does, as quickly as possible. We will be meeting in the Yukon in July, and the business risk management programs will be on the table, I am sure. If there's a way we can coordinate this and put it together faster, we want to do that. In fact, we will make a change in tax deferrals. That, of course, is an issue for the beef farmers. It took too long, and we're starting the evaluation earlier, just to make sure.

Quite honestly, what we're trying to do is make sure that we get cheques in the pockets of qualified farmers and ranchers as quickly as possible, and we will continue to do so.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That’s great. Thank you very much.

I’m pinning a lot of hopes on this July meeting, but it’s still a long way off, Minister, given last year’s losses and the fact that expenditures for seeds and other items for this year have already happened.

I’d also like you to keep in mind the beef producers in Abitibi. You referred to the time when agricultural producers were invited to a committee meeting. Some producers had to sell their cattle because they didn’t have enough hay to feed them. They now find themselves with additional income, and will therefore receive no compensation. We need to think outside the box here, Minister.

As far as Farm Credit Canada is concerned, a few agricultural producers have told me that they’ve been charged 18% interest on overdue loans. At a previous committee meeting, I asked the Farm Credit representative about that, and he replied that it must have been an isolated case. Since then, however, I’ve been made aware of a few other such examples.

Don’t you think that, as minister, you could take a look at this issue and see whether this farm credit organization isn’t straying from its mission, which is to help farmers, when it charges interest rates similar to those for credit cards?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, I fully believe we're thinking out of the box on the issues we need to move fast on. On this 18% loan issue, it's through Farm Credit Canada, and individual loans I have no input into. I could speculate what might happen with individuals and their loans, but I cannot answer the question as to why interest is put at a certain rate by a financial institution.

I can tell you whatever I find out. I just found this out yesterday from you. I've never been involved in individual...and I won't be either, but I'll find out what the structure is for them to be allowed to put 18%, or to have decided to put 18%, on a loan. I can assure you, being a farmer myself many years ago and seeing an interest rate of 22%, that I know what that does. That hurts.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, John Barlow]

Thank you, Minister.

Thanks, Mr. Perron.

Now we'll go to the NDP, with Mr. MacGregor for six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for joining us today, Minister.

Last year I travelled to Penticton, right in the heart of the Okanagan in British Columbia, to be part of the B.C. Organic Conference. It was really fantastic being in a room of organic farmers, who in many cases are really pushing the envelope in the ways they're trying to farm and make it work economically. It was a great sharing of ideas.

Since then, I've talked a lot with the Canada Organic Trade Association, which has been trying to echo a lot of what they're trying to achieve on the ground. In particular, one current theme keeps coming up: the lack of a policy framework for organic food and farming. This is in contrast to some of our major trade competitors, which have organic growth policies. They're making historic investments in the sectors. The concern among organic farmers in Canada is that if we don't match that kind of investment and commitment, we're going to be left behind. This would be a shame given the real potential the sector has and the growth it's already seen.

Minister, what are your thoughts on recognizing organic agriculture and incorporating it into a sustainable agriculture strategy? That's a call from the sector. I think they would like to hear from you today on what you're prepared to do in the future on that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Alistair, I have to say thank you for your support. When you have issues, you bring them forth and you want them resolved, and I thank you for that. It just makes things easier.

They're involved in the sustainable agriculture strategy, and we want to be sure that they're involved, understanding quite well how big the organic market is. I don't have the figures before me, but we export a lot of organic product and import substantial amounts of organic product. The opening is there to produce more organic products.

When I was the minister before, the organic standards were a big issue, and the big problem was getting the funding. With a lot of help from a lot of people, we were able to arrange that and cover it, but the standards, as you know, are vitally important too. We want to make sure they expand.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Specifically, I think they want to know about the development of a policy framework. I understand the standards, and we know about the funding being provided, but what about a policy framework? That's what the sector is really driving at.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Alistair, they are involved in the sustainable agriculture strategy, and I want to help them with any framework they can put in place, because as you know, we export close to 100 billion dollars' worth of agriculture and agri-food products and they are a major part of that. Anything we can do to help them, whether it's with a special framework or otherwise, I want to do because the market is fully there. I'm sure the government wants to do it, and Canadians want it because Canadians want the product. We will make sure that we work in every way possible, because organic farming is expanding.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I want to get to another question.

As you know, the Chicken Farmers of Canada were recently in town. A reoccurring theme there is the very real concerns with spent fowl making its way across the border. They keep bringing up the fact that there's an available DNA test. The concern is that the amounts coming into Canada are making a mockery of TRQs.

I think they just want to know from you, Minister, how seriously you are taking this issue. What can you tell this committee about how you're working with some of our partners at CBSA? Chicken farmers don't seem to be giving you a passing grade on that front, based on what I heard directly from them.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I just met them about half an hour ago, and they were pretty polite, to tell you the truth.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

However, this is an issue, and it's an ongoing issue. In fact, just a couple of days ago, I was in a meeting, and nobody could think of what the problem was. I knew it was spent fowl, having been here previously and knowing the problem.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency is working with its counterparts in the U.S. and the border service areas. I do know that there was a suggestion put forth by the Chicken Farmers of Canada, but I can't dictate to the border service agencies what they will accept or will not accept. However, I have to say that the subject you're on is absolutely right, because American chicken farmers and Canadian chicken farmers are working, but it has declined.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's a great segue. Did this come up in your conversations with Secretary Vilsack? How high a priority was this when you were discussing it? Obviously, they're pointing the finger to one source: It's the United States.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I shouldn't be accepting the problem myself, but the fact is that it's not Vilsack's problem. I don't think spent fowl is being imported into the U.S., but it's coming into Canada.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

No, they're the origin.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

They are concerned, but it's up to our government, our agencies and our system to come up with some way to deal with this. We did some testing. I'm not a scientist, but there was testing done during my sabbatical as minister. They tell me that there were reductions, but it's starting to creep up again. We have to take more action, and I fully agree with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much, Minister and Mr. McGregor.

Mr. Steinley for five minutes.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, there are storm clouds on the horizon in agriculture, but they have nothing to do with climate change.

On behalf of 190,000 farm families, the Minister of Finance just got a letter on the increase in the capital gains exemption from one-half to two-thirds. Was there any consultation with the agriculture sector before this was put into budget 2024?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I appreciate your question; I truly do.

I can't answer for the Minister of Finance. I think she was travelling right across the country to have discussions with all sectors in the country, but—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you, Minister.

Did your department have any consultations with agriculture sector stakeholders before this was put into budget 2024, yes or no?