Agriculture Committee on Oct. 3rd, 2024

[Rick White]

You're absolutely right. It's not easy, because there's no direct comparison. Even when you look at western Canadian farms, you will see that they vary from farm to farm, region to region, municipality to municipality. When you start comparing to other systems around the world, it becomes very difficult to standardize that, because no one size fits all and no one size fits all across Canada. It's hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all approach to something at the border because of all those differences.

I'm not trying to over-complicate it, but that's the practical reality of how systems are done.

I strongly believe that when it comes to sustainability, farmers know what works on their farms and what doesn't work on their farms. Every single one of them is thinking about the generations to come, because they want to leave that land in better condition than they received it, so the incentive for ongoing continuous improvement on the sustainability front is inherent in their DNA, in their business models and in the future of their families. Trying to standardize that through regulation is very difficult. It's a very big challenge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. White.

Thank you, Mr. Perron.

Mr. Cannings is next.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'm going to go to you, Mr. White, because you've been getting short shrift all day, so I'll start with you on this.

You mentioned some of the challenges that all sectors have when it comes to international trade. Your sector in particular has been impacted by the decision to put heavy tariffs on Chinese EVs, steel and aluminum coming into Canada, because China has immediately hit back at one of Canada's big sectors: canola.

You also mentioned the impacts that a carbon border adjustment might have on incremental costs to your farmers. If we put a carbon border adjustment on steel and aluminum, it might increase the cost of farm equipment, for instance. I would argue that if you're looking for cheap steel, it's going to come from China, and that might be moot now that those tariffs are there.

I'm wondering if you could maybe expand on that and the complications. This is a complicated thing, and this is another aspect of that.

[Rick White]

Right. Thank you for bringing up China again.

I will take this opportunity to say that CCGA is involved in the anti-dumping investigation by China on canola. It's a big deal [Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Chair, there's a connection problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

There's a bit of an issue, perhaps, Mr. White, with your Internet connection.

[Rick White]

Can you hear me now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Keep going, and we'll see whether we get translation.

[Rick White]

I was going to elaborate on the China issue. The CCGA, with the 40,000 members we represent, is participating in and has registered to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'm sorry, Mr. White. There's some type of Internet instability right now with your connection. I'm sorry, but we're going to have to pause.

Mr. McCann, would you like to chime in briefly for 30 seconds?

[Tyler McCann]

Maybe I'll just again emphasize how critically important this issue is and how much it underscores that we need to have a much more thoughtful approach to Canada's relationship with partners around the world, both the U.S. and China. I think that there are, again, not easy solutions for Canada in what we need to do, but we need to be much more aware of the consequences.

This should not have been a surprise. It seems as if, at times, it may have caught some people by surprise. We need to do a better job of preparing and being prepared to respond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Mr. Cannings.

There's just one quick question from me.

Mr. White, we can see whether your Internet issue has been resolved.

I think it's been very clear from the testimony that the complexity around a border adjustment mechanism is going to be very difficult for agriculture, both in an importation sense and even exporting. That's fine. What's your view, though?

Mr. White, your organization, through grain growers and through others, has goals of trying to reduce emissions and continue to drive sustainability. That has costs.

Mr. McCann, you've talked about more carrots and maybe fewer sticks, but that has costs to the taxpayers in this country and to the government treasury. How is that accounted for?

We've also heard, and we know, that Canadian agriculture is competitive in an intensity sense in carbon. Is it your view that we just don't account for that internationally, that Canada is not able to have a competitive advantage in that conversation, or that we should simply continue to subsidize heavily to get environmental outcomes without ever having that accounted for by countries that are not doing the same internationally? Is this a club approach, with a club of countries that are doing something and they're not subject to, perhaps, some type of tariff, and then countries that are demonstrably doing nothing should pay?

If I were to talk to farmers across the country, they would say, “I understand it's important to environmental sustainability, but I don't want to be undermined competitively in the world.” How do we square those two things? If there's not a carbon adjustment mechanism, is there any leadership? Is there any kind of consideration? Are we just trying to decouple those two things completely?

[Tyler McCann]

I think it's important. You talked about who's going to pay. It doesn't need to be governments. It could be consumers. It could be others who help farmers make the investments that they need to. I think there's the sense that there's value out there for low-carbon food, which likely doesn't exist.

One of the challenges is that it's hard for us to look around the world and see which countries are willing to spend more for Canadian food because of its low-carbon footprint. It's one thing to have this rhetorical thing about wanting [Technical difficulty—Editor] but the reality is that it's very hard to find people who are willing to pay for more sustainable outcomes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. White, I think we're having issues again with your sound.

We'll end it there.

We went a little bit over time, but I think that's a reflection of the good conversations we've had and the broad interest in the topic.

Colleagues, we will be back at it next Tuesday afternoon.

On your behalf, I'd like to thank Mr. McCann and Mr. White for their testimony and their contribution and leadership in agriculture.

We'll see you on Tuesday.

The meeting is adjourned.