Evidence of meeting #116 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Thanks, Mr. Epp.
I think the other thing that makes it unique is that it's perishable. When you make a widget, it doesn't necessarily go rotten or pass away.
Ms. Taylor Roy is next, I believe. Thanks.
October 31st, 2024 / 10:10 a.m.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
Thank you for being here, Mr. Nelson. I have a few questions about your farm.
What type of farm is it?
Farm Owner, Oakhurst Farm
It actually began as a horse farm. My in-laws were very much into thoroughbreds.
Farm Owner, Oakhurst Farm
We've diversified a lot more since I took over. We grow some crops and have hay and whatnot. I have some chickens, eggs and maple syrup.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Where does the majority of your revenue come from?
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Is there dressage training? I have a daughter in the field, so that's why I'm asking. She actually went to Olds College for her training, so I understand.
What year did you buy the farm?
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
In 2008. That was after the capital gains tax had dropped from 75% back down to 50%.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Okay.
I have a question, because one of the reasons the inclusion tax on capital gains was put in place—and I know you have children, as I do—was intergenerational fairness. Right now, we're facing a time when much of the wealth is held by people like us—the people who own property, farms, homes, other things and businesses, like I did—and our young people are really struggling to get into farms and to get in to buy houses or other things. Our government has been investing a lot of money in housing programs, child care programs and things to help young families right now.
I know these are financial questions. When we're talking about something like this, what price do you think your farm will sell for? What's the agreement you had or whatever that you've had succession planning around?
Farm Owner, Oakhurst Farm
We were looking at about $5 million for the business and....
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Your primary residence would, of course, be exempted. It would be tax-free—
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
—whereas in the U.S., it's taxed at the normal rate.
In terms of capital gains, how much do you think you'd make in capital gains, after all the expenses and everything you've put into the farm, and after all the investments?
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
What did your succession plan have in it?
Farm Owner, Oakhurst Farm
The succession plan was...what did we have it at? I think the primary residence was fairly minimal. It's an old farmhouse. I guess to answer the question, the way that I understood it from our financial professionals was that we would be starting to draw out at 65, and for a regular lifespan, we would be drawing about $4,000 a month.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
What I'm trying to figure out, though, is the effect of the capital gains, so the difference in capital gains between what it was and what it is right now.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Ms. Taylor Roy, I said “a question”.
You can answer if you want, Mr. Nelson. I'll give you a couple of seconds.
Farm Owner, Oakhurst Farm
The difference between before.... They told me it was about $350,000. That is what the accountant told me.
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
You must have had a capital gain of over $3.5 million then.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative John Barlow
Thanks, Ms. Taylor Roy. I said “a question”.
Mr. Perron for—
Liberal
Leah Taylor Roy Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Between you and Mr. Epp, the last question you asked was over two and a half minutes. I am just at less than two and a half minutes right now.