Agriculture Committee on Nov. 21st, 2024

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Richard Cannings]

Give a very brief answer, Mr. Rosser.

[Tom Rosser]

I will simply say, Mr. Chair, that fertilizer prices are volatile. By our estimates, eastern Canadian producers spent about $3.6 billion on fertilizers in 2022. That's not for a minute to minimize the significance of millions of dollars to Sollio or to its customers, but in the context of overall fertilizer prices and expenditures, we're talking about a relatively small quantum.

[The Acting Chair, NDP, Richard Cannings]

Thank you.

I will now give the floor to Ms. Gaudreau for two and half minutes.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Yes, I'll be quick.

Actually, I'm speechless. When I go back to my riding, I'll have to tell my constituents that, while we have very competent people who they say they work together even in difficult times, as was the case during the pandemic, that's not what we see when we look at the situation afterwards.

In my opinion, food safety is also a matter of national security. Yet, I will have to tell my constituents that work is done in silos. I think that if we looked at what's happening in other countries, we would see that the measure in place should absolutely be done away with.

What should I tell the people in my riding? Help me out here.

You may tell me that you'll work together from now on and show us the fruits of your labour. However, agriculture doesn't come last. It's there right from the beginning, right at breakfast.

You have a few seconds to answer, but tell me, what can I say to the people in my riding?

[Tom Rosser]

At Agriculture and Agri‑Food Canada, we work closely with the Department of Finance and with the CBSA on certain files. Other issues, for example regarding tariffs or taxes, do not fall under our responsibility. However, this doesn't mean that we can't work with other departments and that we always work in silos.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I didn't say that that was always the case. I said you're working in silos when it comes to this measure. It was a horizontal measure that was maintained, and that is what's worrisome to me. It's as if it wasn't important enough.

How is it at the Department of Finance? Is this issue at the bottom of the list? Will it be made a priority?

We have people who came here to tell us about their concerns. I also don't know what I'll tell producers and suppliers in my riding.

[Michèle Govier]

If people want to send us information about the impact of this measure on competitiveness, we are always ready to examine it and see if changes need to be made.

As I stated, the purpose of this measure was really to stop the purchasing of products from Russia. It was what we were aiming for with this measure, and it worked, in the sense that changes were made to supply chains.

I understand that there may be an impact because other countries do things differently. In any case, the decision was made as part of the 2023 budget and we continue to apply the measure as is. However, if there are changes in the market or concerns about it, we can of course take a look at the situation.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Given what we heard today, I hope that action will be taken, because things can change if we work together.

Thank you.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Gaudreau.

We'll go now to Ms. Rood for five minutes.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. Rosser, if that's okay, for the second round.

I know I asked you in the first round why there is a tariff on fertilizer, but I'm curious about the departments that were consulted to make that decision.

Decisions were made, again, to remove aluminum and titanium, for instance. Were there discussions about removing the fertilizer? What departments were involved in those discussions?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, I'll try to respond to the question without repeating some of my earlier testimony.

The original decision to apply tariffs on March 2 came very quickly after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. In the weeks and months that followed, we very actively talked with Sollio and other importers and suppliers of fertilizer, modelled our own data and tried to analyze vulnerabilities and impacts. There was active interdepartmental discussion about those issues, but not necessarily in the lead-up to the initial decision to apply to withdraw the MFN status.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Were food sovereignty and food security even considered in the decision when this was made? Was that part of the discussions?

[Tom Rosser]

I can confirm absolutely that as we analyzed what the Russian invasion of Ukraine meant for commodity prices, Canadian producers and global food security, food security in both a Canadian context and a global context was continuously top of mind.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Were there any discussions on what would happen to the supply chain for farmers and how this would impact their prices and bottom line, as well as how it would impact the production of food domestically, especially given that the bulk of farmers in the fresh food sector, for instance, are in Ontario and Quebec?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, as I'm sure the member appreciates, we're in active dialogue with producers and their representatives in all parts of the country, and we have heard extensively about concerns related to fertilizer prices, specifically in relation to tariffs.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I'm going to ask one more time.

Can you tell me what specific departments were involved in making this decision on fertilizer tariffs? Does anybody have an answer to that? Was it Agriculture Canada? Was it the Department of Finance? Was it ECCC?

[Tom Rosser]

I'll look to my colleague from the Department of Finance.

[Michèle Govier]

When the initial measure was taken, we made different departments aware of where significant numbers of imports were coming from, what products they were, and whether they were relevant.

As I mentioned, it was a measure imposed rather quickly to bolster Canada's response. Certainly, in the weeks after that, while taking stock and seeing whether any adjustments were needed, there were significant conversations, mainly with colleagues at Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Was it just Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada? What were the departments involved in those discussions?

[Michèle Govier]

I believe we also spoke with Industry, Science and Economic Development Canada. It was those that had sectors we were importing into. It was not so much Natural Resources Canada, for example, as we do not import those types of products from Russia. In fact, our imports from Russia are relatively narrow.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I'm going to turn back to Mr. Rosser for my last minute here.

Did you accompany the agriculture minister on his recent trip to China?

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, I can confirm that I did.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Was a meeting secured with government officials prior to the minister leaving for China?

[Tom Rosser]

There was certainly work done putting together a program for the minister in the lead-up to his departure. As often happens with these things, there were changes to the program once we arrived.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

You can't confirm that there was a bilateral meeting set up with his counterpart in China before he left for China.