Agriculture Committee on March 31st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Perfect. It's my understanding that we don't need a recorded division, so we'll move forward on that basis.

(Motion agreed to)

Colleagues, we're getting close to time here because of some of the delays.

Here's how we're going to do it. I'm going to take 10 more minutes, with three minutes to the Conservatives, three minutes to the Liberals, and two minutes for the NDP and the Bloc. I'm going to use my discretion, and that's how we're going to close.

Mr. Barlow, it's over to you for three minutes, please.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

It's great to see some of the stars of the Guardians of the Grasslands documentary with us today.

Kristine, it's good to see you. I know you haven't had a chance to speak, but I'm very proud of that documentary that was filmed in my riding.

I would encourage anybody on the committee to take a moment to watch that if you have not done so.

Part of the idea of this study is to identify definitive things that we can do to highlight what agriculture has done and is doing, and certainly things that we can do to improve. The 3-NOP program or product seems like a no-brainer, and I just want to go back to that really quickly.

The EU is usually very risk-averse and doesn't like to use any of these types of products. For them to have it approved before us.... I understand it could be two or three years yet until it's approved for use in Canada.

Andrea, can you maybe tell me why it's been assessed as a veterinary medicine and not as a feed additive in Canada? What was the reason it went that way?

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

Maybe.

I think that is the way.... As far as I understand it, when we add anything as an additive to feed, it's considered a drug.

Monica, do you know anything more than I do?

[Monica Hadarits]

I can just add quickly that the only pathway that companies have to date for these types of products is through a veterinary drug submission with Health Canada. There is no other pathway that exists right now within our system in Canada.

What we're recommending is that a feed pathway be developed that would allow for the registration of these types of products. One that we're flagging right now is 3-NOP, but there are other products that will be coming down the pipeline as well. That feed pathway through CFIA would be a really great opportunity to get those products registered in a more timely manner.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Monica.

I know there was a pretty intense study done on this product, specifically at a Nanton feedlot, about 15,000 head, if I remember.

Is it possible to put this in perspective? When we're talking about up to an 80% reduction of methane, if we think of two more years of not having approval of this product, what does that mean in terms of the methane going out into the atmosphere that would maybe not have been a problem? Do you have the data that goes along with that 80%? What does that mean in terms of either tonnage of methane or...?

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

I'm going to defer to Monica on this one because she knows more data than I do.

[Monica Hadarits]

I don't have the data on hand, but it's certainly something that.... We can run the scenarios, and circle back, for sure.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Could we have something definitive that we can wrap our heads around?

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Certainly, I would be interested in that as well, Ms. Hadarits.

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Mr. Turnbull, it's over to you for three minutes.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being here today. It has been a really engaging discussion.

I want to go back to the topic of ecosystem goods and services.

I'm wondering, Mr. Thoroughgood, if we can maybe start with you on this.

What would you envision we would need to build a comprehensive approach to ecosystem goods and services?

[Paul Thoroughgood]

That is a good question. Thank you for that.

I think an important first step is quantifying what goods and services are associated with which land uses, land management systems and that sort of thing, so that we can build a playing field that purchasers who need to buy credits for an environmental good or service can feel confident in. It's also so that landowners can feel confident when they sell that good or service that they are providing exactly what they said they were. I think step one is data.

Step two—and I think an important role for government—is to build those protocols and approve those protocols so that industry and landowners can engage with confidence.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. MacLeod, would you agree with what Mr. Thoroughgood just said?

[Cedric MacLeod]

Absolutely. That's part of the work we've done over the last five years at CFGA. We started with carbon and we're doing a bit of work on the biodiversity and habitat side—mostly around education, but we see that all the time. The data gap is what really thwarts us in moving some of these protocols forward quickly.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mrs. Andrea Stroeve-Sawa.

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

I would absolutely agree. The biggest thing for us, from a producer's perspective—and maybe with a bit of my CRSB hat on—is that you can't control what you can't measure. Being able to quantify all of these things and measure them and know the improvement is key.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

In your opening remarks, you mentioned having a “comprehensive systems view” of sustainability. Could you speak to that a bit more and maybe unpack that?

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

Personally, I think the biggest thing is.... There is no one silver bullet that's going to answer the sustainability issue within the beef sector. Every single one of us is so complex and so diverse. Just because x works for me, that doesn't mean it will work for someone else. When we look at it from a whole-systems approach, we look at every single management tool, making sure that we're always looking at the outcome. It's not necessarily about the “how” but about the outcome, because what I do on my farm could be very different from what my neighbour does on his farm right across the street from our farm—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you very much. We'll have to leave it at that.

Thank you, Mr. Turnbull. I might have set us up for that failure, but we're glad we got that on the record.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for two minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Stroeve‑Sawa, I really liked one of your comments. You said that what works for your farm might not work for your neighbour's farm.

What you're telling us is that, if we want the environmental performance measurement support program to work, it needs to be as decentralized as possible. Also, maybe the money should be available to the farmers, who are entrepreneurs. They should be the ones to decide when to invest.

Did I understand you correctly?

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

Yes. It needs to not be tied to one specific thing or one specific practice, so to speak. It needs to be tied to outcomes and things you are actually going to see on the land.

I don't know whether Monica needs to jump in here.

It just needs to not be tied to one specific practice. Farmers are so diverse, and even our land base across the road can be very different—

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I don't have a lot of time.

Would measures to stop or reduce livestock transportation be helpful?

For example, slaughter capacity could be increased in the regions or there could be a subsidy for that. Yesterday, a representative of Quebec abattoirs said they could have an incinerator on site to dispose of the waste. We know that transporting waste is very costly.

Could those be potential solutions?

[Andrea Stroeve-Sawa]

I assume that was directed toward me.

Yes, waste is a concern. Most of us on our farms are dealing with that in very different ways. It may be something that would work for someone, but not necessarily for me. We use our feedlot as an upcycler and we produce thousands of tonnes of compost from our feedlot.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you to you both.

Mr. MacGregor, I will ask you to close it out.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the two minutes I have, I will turn to Mr. MacLeod.

Mr. MacLeod, in your opening statement, you posted some impressive figures for Alberta and Saskatchewan on the value of the ecological services that their grasslands and forage space provide. What I am wondering is.... I think those ranges are there because we don't yet have enough data. We've heard from many witnesses that there is a data gap and that's certainly an area where the federal government can step in.

Do you have a sense of how much more capacity we could have, or the increased value those ecological services could have, if we implemented some of the amazing measures you have been referencing to the committee?