Agriculture Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food.

I don't need to go through the reminders. We do this all the time.

We do have before us today Minister MacAulay and his officials because we're going through supplementary estimates (B) 2024-25.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee will commence consideration of the supplementary estimates (B) 2024-25, votes 1b, 5b and 10b under the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food, referred to the committee on Monday, November 18.

Thank you, Minister, for your work on behalf of Canadian farmers and your service to the good people of Cardigan in Prince Edward Island.

I'll turn it over to you for any opening remarks, and then we'll go to questions.

Colleagues, you might be wondering about timing. We will do one hour with the minister and his officials. Then we normally have an additional hour with officials. With your blessing, I think we'll probably truncate that to about 30 minutes. We'll allow for rounds of questions with the officials, but I'll work with you guys accordingly.

Minister, it's over to you. Welcome to the committee.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

It's a pleasure to be back here with my new deputy minister, Lawrence Hanson, as well as assistant deputy minister Tom Rosser, and Robert Ianiro from the CFIA. It's good to have them here.

Like you, I've had a busy few months since I was here. Just a few weeks ago, I travelled to Beijing to advocate for Canadian farmers and producers and to highlight Canada as a reliable supplier of high-quality agriculture and food products.

Our two countries have significant challenges to work through, but I know you folks meet with and speak to stakeholders on a regular basis, so you know just how important that market is to them. Many sectors have been strongly advocating for me to visit since my return to agriculture.

In June, I travelled to the World Pork Expo in Iowa, and I toured an impressive grain mill in Minnesota that relies on quality and reliability of Canadian oats. I was pleased to meet with the governor of Iowa and the agriculture secretaries for Iowa and Minnesota and to impress upon them the importance of our integrated trade in agriculture.

I also look forward to working with my new counterpart, Secretary-elect Rollins, to make sure that our agricultural trade remains strong and integrated, to the benefit of both of our countries.

I know the member for Foothills likes to travel to Prince Edward Island, so this summer I thought I'd pop down to his neck of the woods in Calgary, just to visit the Stampede. We received a warm welcome—no surprise—from many folks. It was great to see first-hand the impressive work being done there. While we were there, we also announced $6 million to help Canadian beef producers grow their markets around the world.

Just last week, we had a great trip to Regina for Agribition. I was able to meet with my new counterpart in Saskatchewan, Minister Daryl Harrison, attend the burning of the brand and meet many stakeholders.

Over the last few months, we have announced over $30 million for five research clusters in crops, barley, bioproducts, organics and poultry.

I’m so pleased to report that the grocery industry is moving towards a grocery code of conduct with the support of all the major grocers. I would like to thank all the members of this committee for their work in helping get this code off the ground.

Unfortunately, extreme weather events continue to impact our farmers. We're working with the provinces and territories to help farmers better adapt to the impacts of climate change, but in the meantime, we'll continue to support our farmers when they're dealing with extreme weather.

We have recently partnered with New Brunswick and Quebec to provide up to $47.2 million under the AgriRecovery program to help producers in these provinces with the extraordinary costs due to serious water damage to their crops.

I know that members are very eager to ask me about the supplementary estimates, so I'll provide an update before taking the questions.

The supplementary estimates before you total $123 million. This includes nearly $60 million for the sustainable Canadian agricultural partnership. I'm sure members of the committee know full well how vital this funding is to provide support for Canadian farmers right across the country.

There's $25 million for the poultry and egg on-farm investment program. There has been a lot of talk in the House of Commons lately about supporting our supply-managed farmers, but it's vitally important that we pass the estimates so that we can get the funding to them.

We also have nearly $20 million to begin the renewal and expansion of the local food infrastructure fund. I know that most of the members here support the national school food program. The expansion of this fund will help to assist this important program.

This is just a bit of what's in the supplementary estimates this year, but I think it shows quite clearly how important it is that we get them passed in the House. I hope that members will put politics aside and vote to get the funds out the door so that we can keep helping farmers and Canadians.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I look forward to members' questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you, Minister MacAulay.

I apologize to officials. I jumped right in with the minister, and I didn't introduce you.

Thank you, again, for your work in the ministry and with CFIA.

Colleagues, we will get to questions.

You'll notice that Stéphanie isn't with us. We have a different clerk, who has also given me some handy 30-second and one-minute signs. You know that I'm usually very liberal as your chair in giving time, but I will signal with these to give you a sense of the time to keep it in order here today.

We will turn to the questions. We'll get two full panels, with three for the Conservatives, three for the Liberals and two rounds of questions for the Bloc and the NDP members. We'll start with the Conservatives, and I presume it's Mr. Barlow, for up to six minutes.

We'll go over to you, Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you said in your preamble that you were in China to advocate for Canadian agriculture. However, the headline in the media when you returned was “Canada's agriculture minister given cold shoulder by Chinese government on trip to Beijing”. That was the headline after your recent return from that trip.

Did you try to secure a meeting with your Chinese counterpart prior to leaving for Beijing?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, I'm sure my colleague understands how vitally important China is to our export market. He's also fully aware that we export $11.5 billion of goods to China. Of course, the sectors were advocating quite hard that I make this trip since I came back to agriculture.

It was a short trip, a quick trip, and it was on and off. It was off, and then the sectors kept pushing. I made the trip there and met with a number of exporters from this country and with a number of importers from China.

There's one thing I did learn—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Minister, did you have a meeting with your Chinese counterpart?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—and that is how vitally important it is when you sell a product to a foreign country that you follow up with representation. That is what we did. What we did in China was meet with the people who buy the products from our country.

We want to make sure—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thanks. I have a minute. You know how this works. I have a limited amount of time.

You did not have a meeting with your Chinese counterpart—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think the way this works, Mr. Chair, is that he asks the question—

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Hold on there, Mr. Minister and Mr. Barlow. I've stopped the clock.

You can appreciate, as the chair, that I want to give the liberty to my honourable colleagues to ask questions.

Minister MacAulay, I know you certainly want to explain, and we want to give room for that.

Within reason, I'll have to intervene to make sure, for the translators, that we do not have both of you talk over each other. I would ask, certainly, if it's a relatively pointed question, Minister, that you try to stay relatively pointed. That would be helpful. We'll try to avoid that overlap.

Go ahead, Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, if the opposition is insinuating that staying in your basement and doing international relations—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

That's not a point of order.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

—or trade from your basement is a good thing, then they should follow their leadership, and it's a great thing. However, on our side, we believe that the minister should show up and—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

It's not a point of order. You'll have your time, Mr. Drouin. You'll have your six minutes when you can talk about that all you want.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

—actually do the work that needs to be done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

That's not a point of order.

Again, it's a balance here. Don't make my job overly hard today. That goes for everyone.

Mr. Barlow, I have stopped the clock. I'll go back.

Again, Minister, certainly we want to hear an expansive piece on what you're doing, but we have to be mindful of managing time for our colleagues as well.

Go ahead, Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Clearly, he did not have a meeting with his Chinese counterpart, so I'm not sure how you're advocating for Canadian agriculture when you can't even get a meeting with your Chinese counterpart, who put punishing tariffs on Canadian canola.

Minister, in 2022, you gave $8.5 million to Aspire Food Group to build a cricket factory, which is now in financial trouble. Minister, did you review its business plan before granting the $8.5 million? That's a pretty clear yes or no question.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, I thank my honourable colleague for the question.

Of course, he indicated it quite clearly, and he referred to my Chinese trip before he asked the question. I again emphasize that it's so vitally important. I know my honourable colleague is very interested in trade to make sure that we sell our grain products to China. In fact, the importers indicated so clearly to us that if we're going to sell products, we have to be there.

On the issue of crickets, I certainly appreciate and understand the question. Of course, it was fully evaluated. I was not the minister at the time, but that makes no difference. It would be fully evaluated by the department and by my ministry, of course, or by the minister of agriculture at that time. These decisions are made in that manner. It's evaluated by the department.

You asked me a question, so you have to give me a minute to—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Yes, you answered it. You said that it was reviewed.

Last July, your government forked over another half a million dollars to this food group. Is that correct? It was to Aspire Food Group.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'd have to evaluate exactly what we paid in the last six months to a year.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] he's talking about crickets.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course, it's an industry that's going through a restructuring, as my honourable colleague is fully aware.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

If that's the case, that you know they're restructuring, why did you give a business that you know is financially struggling another half a million dollars?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Of course, it would have to depend on a business plan. That's how evaluations are made by the department and by the minister.

Do you have anything to add on that, Tom?

[Tom Rosser, Assistant Deputy Minister, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Just briefly, Minister, maybe I would add that those starting to grow insects on a commercial scale for protein, principally for the pet food market, are sort of start-up businesses. These are novel things. There is some risk associated with ventures of that nature.