Agriculture Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

The maximum contribution from AAFC for the AgriInnovate program, which this got funding for, was $5 million, and yet you gave them $8.5 million. Why was this group given an additional $3.5 million over the cap in AgriInnovate?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Mr. Chair, we'd have to evaluate that situation. This decision that was made was fully evaluated by the department, of course. Advice was given to the minister, of course, but the decision was made by the minister.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You overspent by almost 33%. You gave this company over what the cap is on AgriInnovate, and you don't know why they were given an additional $3.5 million over the $5-million cap in a failing business.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

My honourable colleague, I'll turn it over to my deputy, but of course it was evaluated.

[Lawrence Hanson, Deputy Minister, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Thank you, Chair.

We'll try to come back in this session with the amount on AgriInnovate. I admit that this precedes my time in the department, but it seems unlikely to me that we would have exceeded the AgriInnovate contribution level. We'll come back to you quickly on that.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

The company is more than 50% owned by two billionaires, Mr. Risley of Clearwater Seafoods and Mr. Lapham. It's interesting that they were given in excess of the cap.

My final question, Mr. Minister, is this. Three years ago, your predecessor said she was optimistic that the self-imposed ban would be lifted in a couple of weeks on the P.E.I. seed potato ban. That's 1,103 days ago, and still that ban is in place.

I ran into a number of P.E.I. farmers this week at a young farmers event in Alberta, and they all want to know when this self-imposed ban on P.E.I. seed potatoes will be lifted.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I thank my honourable colleague for his interest in the seed potato industry in Prince Edward Island, but I think he's fully aware of why the ban is there. We export over 90% of what we produce in Prince Edward Island. We have to be sure that it meets the requirements of the United States. He understands that we did have a problem with potato wart. This ban was put in place to make sure that the border stayed open.

I think anybody who's exporting potatoes from Prince Edward Island fully understands that and fully supports what's taking place. I'm sure my honourable colleague does too, because he knows very well what—

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

The people in P.E.I. certainly do know who's on their side.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Hold on, Mr. Barlow. You're way out of time.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Drouin.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I just need 30 seconds, Mr. Chair.

I am troubled by the questions that were asked about crickets. I get it. Dr. Leslyn Lewis, the conspiracy theorist who wears tinfoil hats, asks questions about crickets and is somehow trying to convince Canadians—the opposition is eating on this, eating crickets—that our department is forcing Canadians to eat crickets.

Mr. Chair, it is outrageous.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

It's a waste of money.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It is outrageous. They know it. There's a petition online. Their leader, the leader of the official opposition, has pushed this thing. It is crickets and it is BS.

Mr. Chair, I will cede my time to Ms. Leah Taylor Roy, who will ask much more intelligent questions than I've heard from the opposition.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to Minister McCauley, Mr. Hanson and the rest of the witnesses here from the Department of Agriculture and CFIA.

First, I'd like to thank you, Minister McCauley, for going to China and for supporting Canadian farmers even though things were tough. We know that, especially when times are tough, supporting our farmers with their buyers in foreign markets is very important. Your going there and really making an effort to have those in-person relationships makes a big difference. I know that's something you excel at, so thank you for doing that.

I want to circle back a little bit to the canola farmers. We know that these are tough times for them right now. In terms of going in there and trying to talk to their buyers, the government is also helping canola farmers through the clean fuel regulations. We know that when trade is precarious, when times are difficult, it's better to have local markets and to try to develop markets here. I think that is also a way in which we are helping our farmers.

I actually want to switch my questions over to the organic sector. A couple of months ago, and you just referred to this, our government made a funding announcement to advance sustainable farming practices in the organic sector. I have a number of constituents who are organic farmers. Could you expand on that a little bit and talk about how you're supporting sustainable farming practices in the organic sector? What are the specific goals for this funding?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

It's an important and valuable question. You're fully aware of the organic agricultural sector and how it needs to be increased. We import organic products in this country. We could produce more, and we could be exporting products. There is no doubt. That's why the funding is there. It's to increase that and make it more sustainable.

When I was in the ministry previously, we helped organic farmers on the organic standards, which you know all about. It's so important. Those, I believe, are up again. We're working with organic farmers to make sure they have the standards in place. As you know, to meet the requirements of the EU, things have to change.

The organic agricultural sector is vitally important. It's like the mutton industry. There are areas of agriculture we're not producing enough in. There's an open market for this stuff, both inside and outside this country. That's why we're pushing so hard to increase the sectors so they become more self-reliant and of course export, too, which is important.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I think the market opportunity is great. We know there's a premium paid for organic products. It also often helps smaller farmers sustain themselves and operate.

We talked about the investments you made in Aspire. As somebody who's been an entrepreneur in small business, I know that sometimes working capital requirements exceed your earlier expectations. Additional funding is needed to help you move forward and get you to scale, to get you to that point. I appreciate that our government has been taking some risks and going into areas the private sector wouldn't go into. That's the job of government. I would say that if we never had a project fail, we wouldn't be doing our job. If we're not taking risks, who is? That is what government and innovation should be doing. I want to thank you for that, as well.

I'll now turn briefly to supply management and the poultry and egg on-farm investment fund, which I know you've also been talking about. There's money in the supplementaries for it.

I'm wondering if you can tell the committee what you've heard from producers about how important the funding allocated to this program in the supplementary estimates is.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Being a farmer myself and someone involved in the supply management sector, I'm fully aware of the value of supply management and the effort made in the House to make sure it remains secure. As you know, we initiated the supply management program over 50 years ago. I've been involved, and I'm fully aware of it.

The egg industry, along with every other agricultural sector in the country, needs to continue to expand. That is why that funding is there. It's to help them increase their production. It's simply that. We don't want to have to import the products. We want to make sure we produce them ourselves.

Farm Credit, as you're no doubt aware, is now making moves to make more venture capital available. You're right. If every venture capital dollar is returned, we didn't do enough of a venture. Venture capital is meant to take some risk, of course with some evaluation of the programs. We want to make sure that is done. I'm certainly pleased about Farm Credit being able to do this. They'll be able to hit many sectors, including the supply management sector and others in agriculture, which is so vitally needed.

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

I think that's the difference between entrepreneurs and journalists.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Ms. Taylor Roy—

[Leah Taylor Roy, Liberal, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

People who have been there understand it, and people who write about it don't, necessarily.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, we're at time.

I haven't gone into the cards, because we're not used to that tradition at this committee.

Mr. Perron, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here, especially the minister.

I'm going to jump right in, because I have a lot of questions. If I get short answers, we'll be able to cover more topics, and that will be good for everyone.

Minister, I'll start with the duck industry, which is struggling right now. Mr. Ianiro can chime in. We can come back to this in more detail in the second hour.

One issue is the approval to import genetics from France. I know the work is being done conscientiously, but, from the outside, some things don't make sense.

It's been over a year since we found a genetics supplier in France that doesn't vaccinate its ducklings. We can import those ducklings safely, but we're still waiting for approval to do so. Canadian Food Inspection Agency representatives went to France in early September. Now it's almost Christmas, and the last I heard from Minister Holland is that they hope to have the report by the end of the year. Don't you think these delays are unreasonable?

Our duck industry is in trouble. That is unfortunate, because this industry is based in Quebec, it is very dynamic, and it produces a high-quality product. I want to hear your thoughts on that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I understand your concern. I'm not surprised to hear it. You've voiced it a number of times. Of course, I am certainly not going to dictate that the CFIA is not doing its job. The fact is, as you know, we wouldn't be exporting nearly a hundred billion dollars' worth of agricultural products if the CFIA wasn't doing its job.

Robert, I'll let you handle this, but we're not.... We expected this question.

[Robert Ianiro, Vice-President, Policy and Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency]

Mr. Perron, thank you for your question.

We are in the process of completing the evaluation, and the report will be done in early 2025. We will then determine whether we can make changes to the ban on importing genetics that you just mentioned. A decision will be made very soon.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you for that, but the delay is unreasonable for the duck industry. We have find a way to move faster.

Still on the subject of the duck industry, we know that cases of avian influenza have recently appeared here. I don't want to look like the guy who doesn't care—I definitely do—but, in other countries, when a flock is considered low pathogenic, it is monitored and it can still be slaughtered and sold. In Canada, in contrast, things move very quickly and flocks are destroyed before the results of the tests to determine whether the animals are low or high pathogenic are even available. Here's a concrete example that was shared with me. Three flocks were declared low pathogenic. Two of the flocks were destroyed before the test results were received. Fortunately, the third was saved thanks to the test result.

This isn't about not being careful. I want to make it very clear that I'm not a scientist, but is Canada moving too quickly? Other countries, such as France, the Netherlands and Poland, do not slaughter animals considered to be low pathogenic. I gather they even send some to us. In all likelihood, these birds are being imported, while here they are being destroyed.

If our choice is to follow the science and be extremely strict and destroy the flocks, that's fine, but shouldn't producers receive adequate compensation? They're not compensated after the birds are destroyed. According to producers, it costs between $20,000 and $30,000 per building to clean up and pay workers. What do you think of that, Minister? Don't you think we could do better?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

On the avian flu, there's a lot in B.C. in particular. It's a big issue. The cleanup is a big issue, and with the difficulty you have with ducks, the CFIA has to be careful and make sure that it makes the right decision on this.

Robert, I don't know if you have any more to add to that.