Agriculture Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Just so I understand it correctly, that consultation period was public. Anybody, Joe and Jane Porch or farmers from Dalkeith or St-Albert, could have commented—anybody from anywhere in Canada could have commented—on that particular ingredient.

I don't want to pick on 3-NOP. I'm asking just in general about feed additives.

[Robert Ianiro]

Mr. Chair, the answer to the question is any time we look at adding a feed ingredient to our ingredients table, there is a consultation. It is typically 30 days.

If we're referring to nitrooxypropanol, or 3-NOP, in particular, that consultation was open from November 16 to December 16, and then it was put on the ingredients list at the end of January 2024.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Let's say the CFIA missed something. You've clearly outlined that Europe approved it before and the U.S. has approved it. I'm assuming that the CFIA, on a continuous basis, if there is new scientific data that is presented, would consult with its like-minded partners, as it always does. Is that correct?

[Robert Ianiro]

Yes, we're obviously always looking at new, emerging science. If there is any evidence to suggest that something has become unsafe based on the intended uses, absolutely, that is correct, Mr. Chair.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great.

Mr. Chair, In the spirit of Christmas, I will cede my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

I'll take that at the end.

Go ahead, Monsieur Perron, for six minutes.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. Ianiro, let's talk more about duck. I didn't want to waste my time with the minister on this earlier, but I'd like you to explain something to me and to the industry people. The importation of genetics from France was halted because of avian flu and because of the vaccine that's in use over there but is not wanted here in Canada. Apparently a supplier over there who wasn't vaccinating was found quickly. According to my information, this file has been active for over a year. In early September, a team from your agency visited. Now it's almost Christmas, and I'm being told the report should come out in 2025.

Don't you think that process is taking a long time? The industry being kept waiting, and it's at risk because it can't produce.

[Robert Ianiro]

Thank you for the question.

To make sure my answer is 100% accurate and concise, I'll reply in English, if that's okay.

First and foremost, I would say that we acknowledge the issue and the challenge you're clearly outlining, which producers in Quebec are facing.

In response to a decision made by France to vaccinate their commercial duck population, we made a decision at that time to impose restrictions on the import of all poultry from France, including ducks.

Our current belief is there are some risks in introducing HPAI into Canada. That being said, as it was mentioned, we are in the process of conducting an evaluation—we are doing that with the USDA—and there was a visit to France.

The risk assessment I mentioned earlier is in the final stages of being completed. That's what I understand. It is at that point in time that I think we'll revisit the current bans that are in place, particularly on the duck genetics. If there is reason to revisit that and allow a more flexible approach for the importation of duck genetics, or even other ducks and duck by-products, I can assure you that we will endeavour to do so, based on the issues that have been raised here.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you for that.

I'm still having a hard time understanding why the process is taking so long. Is there a shortage of resources? Do you have enough resources to do this work?

[Robert Ianiro]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

I wouldn't say there's a shortage of resources. My understanding is that the visit happened just a few months ago, I believe, and, as I said, the evaluation is being finalized.

What I can add is that it clearly is a pressing issue, and I can personally commit to ensuring that the evaluation is completed in short order and, perhaps more so, that we look at the findings and render a decision on what flexibilities could be introduced as soon as possible.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Ianiro.

Again, you might be the person who can give me more information about pork.

I was pleased to hear the minister say that he's working on setting up an emergency fund in case African swine fever shows up here. If I understand correctly, talks are under way with the countries we export pork to. The idea is to make zoning arrangements so we aren't forced to block all exports.

That's what happened with duck. The announcement was done in a hurry and was very general. Containers of ducks that had already been slaughtered were ready to be shipped. These frozen products posed no risk, and companies suffered heavy losses.

[Robert Ianiro]

Mr. Chair, there is no doubt that the CFIA is taking the threat of the introduction of ASF into Canada very seriously. It obviously would have devastating impacts on the industry.

We obviously are focusing on prevention, on biosecurity and, in particular, on the preparedness activities. Part of those preparedness activities is to promote business continuity. One of the elements of that business continuity is ensuring that we have international zoning arrangements in place.

We currently have zoning arrangements for the U.S., the European Union, Singapore, Vietnam and Hong Kong. That makes up about 39% of the pork exports in dollar value from 2023. We are in the process of continuing our negotiations with the United Kingdom, Japan, the Philippines, South Korea, Chile and Mexico. When those are completed, that would actually have coverage through these arrangements of just under 79% of our annual dollar value of pork exports from 2023.

As it relates to how we would deal with any surplus hogs in that event, I will have to turn to my colleagues at AAFC.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you for that.

I would like to talk about the issue of access to veterinary products, which Mr. MacGregor alluded to earlier, but I'm not sure which witness can speak to this.

We know there's a shortage of veterinarians and that many veterinarians come from outside Canada. They have to take an exam to be certified. There's one centre in Quebec and another in Winnipeg, I believe. I was told there's a capacity issue. Have steps been taken? The veterinarian shortage impacts agricultural production, and that's a huge problem.

[Tom Rosser]

Mr. Chair, my Canadian Food Inspection Agency colleagues may be better equipped to answer the member's question than I am.

I just want to say that we're aware of the situation. Ideas have been put forward for increasing veterinarian training capacity, especially for veterinarians trained abroad, so we can make sure they're able to practise in Canada. We've talked to veterinarians and universities about ways to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Hanson, I'll turn to you. I know you were about to answer, but my time was short with the minister. I want to return to the line of questioning I had on the sustainable Canadian agricultural partnership.

You have asked the Parliament of Canada to approve $42 million in the supplementary estimates for contributions to the cost-shared programs. Back on October 29, Keith Currie, as president of the CFA, appeared before this committee. I want to quote some of his testimony for you.

He said:

...we cannot wait until 2028, when the next five-year FPT framework will be implemented, to address the sector's disaster relief needs. That's why we are recommending that the Government of Canada, in partnership with the provinces, territories and industry, immediately convene a disaster relief summit and strike a task team to look at options to better respond to environment-related disaster events.

This is not the only time the CFA and others have made this call. I think there is quite a lot of concern about waiting all the way until March 31, 2028.

Can you inform this committee what steps the federal department is taking in terms of leadership of the provinces in addressing these very real concerns?

[Lawrence Hanson]

Thank you, Chair.

Begging the chair's pardon, I wonder if I might make good on a promise I made in the round with the minister and respond to an earlier question without taking away from the current member's time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Certainly, you're entitled. Mr. MacGregor can ask the question. Are you talking in terms of providing the documentation?

[Lawrence Hanson]

No, I'm sorry, it was a question from Mr. Barlow in the first round, and I promised the information. I just want to make good on that promise, but I don't want to detract from Mr. MacGregor's time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

Okay.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Is that a commitment to provide documentation?

[Lawrence Hanson]

No, sorry. Maybe I'll do this in order.

I believe that the member asked about the funding for Aspire Food Group and whether or not it was inconsistent with the program terms and conditions. I just wanted to flag that the member is quite right that, if you go to the website, it would say normally a maximum of $5 million. I will clarify that the program terms and conditions do allow for a contribution of up to $10 million, so it was consistent with the program Ts and Cs. I wanted to clarify that in response to the member's question.

Thank you, Chair.

I have had the pleasure of meeting with Mr. Currie multiple times since I've started this job. I will say that it's important to understand that the SCAP, although it's a five-year agreement, it doesn't mean that the entire system of supports for producers are frozen in amber for that five-year period. There are constant discussions on how we can strengthen elements of the program. To give just one example, there was a discussion at the federal-provincial ministers' meeting this summer about potential adjustments to the AgriStability program to deal with very specific issues in the cow-calf sector. We are continuing to talk about how we can make the AgriRecovery framework operate more efficiently, to the minister's point. We're certainly not in a situation where the program suite and the statutory programming under BRM can't be adjusted for five years.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Hanson.

I know that you as officials have been asked about the grocery code of conduct, and we know that this was primarily industry-led but that there were contributions from the Government of Canada.

It is a voluntary code at this point, but I do believe there are ways the government could make it mandatory if it's not effective. I'd like you to explain to this committee what particular benchmarks would have to be met in order for the government to intervene. What are the markers? How bad does it have to get if this code fails before the calls for mandatory participation would prompt you to take action?

[Lawrence Hanson]

I don't think I will speculate on this kind of set of factors that would lead to a change of approach on the code of conduct.

Again, to reiterate the earlier point, because this is a shared undertaking with provincial and territorial governments, were there ever to be a change or a pivot on that in some sort of different direction, it would be something that we would want to talk about it in an intergovernmental context, and I don't think it would be right for me as an official in one single order of government to speculate on what form that would take and why it would happen.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Okay, fair enough.

I'd like to also ask about the funding for the local food infrastructure fund that you have in the supplementary estimates. Like Mr. Louis, I also have constituents who benefited from this funding, and I do believe that, at its heart, it's very good for establishing much-needed resiliency in local small communities like my riding.

What I want to know from the department is how you are measuring the outcomes of this program in terms of recipients who have received money. How are you measuring how that local resilience and infrastructure has been built up over time? What are the markers you're looking for to measure the success of the program?