Agriculture Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think my honourable colleague is well aware of what I said last time. You can interpret it whatever way you like.

I said I do not write the budget—and I do not write it. I also can assure you that whatever involves the agricultural sectors, I am fully involved and will continue to be as long as I'm minister.

You're fully aware, too, that we increased the capital gains tax exemption to $1.25 million and also—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I agree with all that, Mr. Minister.

I'm just wondering if you have a list of stakeholders from the ag sector that you have consulted with about the capital gains increase since it was delivered in the budget.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I continually consult with the agricultural sector. Every day, I think, I talk with a set of different sectors of agriculture, and I'm very pleased to do it.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Have they talked about the financial burden they feel this is going to be on the next generation?

We had the Dochertys here at committee. The son broke down in tears in committee because of the financial pressures he's feeling because of the capital gains increases. He believes he won't be able to carry on the family potato farm because of this government's policy direction.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Everybody is entitled to their interpretation. As you are fully aware—I think you're aware—this change will help small and medium-sized agricultural farmers across the country. There are large firms that will pay a bit more, and that's simply how it is.

This was put in place. You have to adjust the tax system and, in fact, we have many programs in place like the pharmacare program, the child tax benefit, all these dental programs, continual programs.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you. I know about those programs.

The Liberals made a commitment that it's only going to affect 0.13% of the population. I haven't heard from a farmer, in talking about succession planning with their kids, who has not been affected. In fact, in 2004, the total farm debt was $48.9 billion across Canada, and in 2023, the total farm debt was $140 billion.

How do you think the increase in capital gains is going to increase the debt load on the next generation of farmers? How do you believe they're going to make a go of it, Mr. Minister?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, the increase in the capital gains exemption is going to help farmers, and I think you know that. It went from $1 million to $1.25 million. Then there's the Canadian entrepreneurs' incentive. There are a number of programs—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Farmers don't qualify for that program.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes, they do.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—that will help farmers and make sure they're able to continue on.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

The Grain Growers of Canada said that this capital gains tax increase will mean about a 30% increase on farmers across the board. That was their number.

Do you think that the Grain Growers of Canada had that wrong, or do you agree with that number?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

What I can tell you is that this capital gains tax change will help small and medium-sized enterprises right across this country to transfer their properties. Without that, they would have more difficulty. This will help small and medium-sized farmers right across this country.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I'm not sure how that's possible, Mr. Minister. I'm reading from a release—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I can tell you that it's possible, really, with—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I'm reading from a release asking the federal government to reverse their harmful capital tax gains for the agriculture sector. It is signed onto by the provincial ministers from Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Manitoba. All of these ministers have said this is going to damage the agriculture sector in our country.

Are those ministers right? Is your government policy not going to help farmers across our country?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

All I can do is tell you, my friend, what this will do. This will help small and medium-sized operations be able to transfer their property.

I think my honourable colleague is aware of that.

You know that's right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

We're at time, Mr. Steinley.

Sorry, Mr. Minister, but that is five minutes.

There are a couple of things I want to say to Mr. Steinley.

I've spent a good time in your province—a beautiful time in Saskatchewan—so the minister's a good Liberal—

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

[Inaudible—Editor] two Liberals.

[The Chair, Liberal, Kody Blois]

—and maybe Mr. Drouin is as well.

I'll say, certainly when we talk about the proposed capital gains, I do want the committee to recognize that the government has extended that to agriculture from $1.25 million to $3.25 million. The measures have not passed, to be fair, but that is the intention of the government.

Mr. Louis, go ahead for five minutes.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

I wanted to highlight the positive impact of the local food infrastructure fund. I appreciate your time here, and I also appreciated the time that you came to visit Kitchener—Conestoga to see first-hand the positive impact of that funding. The goal of that program is to improve accessibility to nutritious and local food, and it helps purchase and install essential infrastructure and equipment.

In Kitchener—Conestoga, the local food infrastructure fund has been a game-changer. The Wilmot Family Resource Centre, which you and I visited, received $23,000 from the fund to help acquire a refrigerated van, which is a vital tool that delivers fresh food and locally-grown produce to families in need in my community.

I also wanted to highlight that local farmers have been incredibly generous, and I'm sure not just in my riding but across the country. When they have a bit extra, they donate. They donate chicken, pork, squash, corn, honey, eggs and all of these things just because they're part of our community, and I wanted to thank them publicly. Organizations in Kitchener—Conestoga like the Wilmot Family Resource Centre and Woolwich Community Services are tirelessly providing those essential services and support.

That local approach is what I appreciate so much about the local food infrastructure fund, because people are receiving services from their neighbours. They're part of the community already and they're familiar faces and friends.

In your travels across Canada as Minister of Agriculture, specifically in those smaller communities, can you share how you've seen that local food infrastructure fund help Canadians?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Tim, at the Wilmot Family Resource Centre, that was a touching event to see what took place there and to see so many people who cared. You received some funding, and it's certainly on full display what the value of that funding is.

As you know, we put $63 million into the last budget, and we need to make sure that we quit playing games in the House and get these estimates through and make sure that this money becomes available, because, without a doubt, what you're doing helps so much the people who have less in your area. That's right across the country. I see it right in my own district too, right in my own home community, where there's a community fridge.

The infrastructure program is so vitally important to help people. You also have that refrigerated truck, which means they're able to deliver food around. It's just so heartwarming to see, but I think the most heartwarming part of that trip was seeing the people who worked so hard and cared so much about the people who had less. That means so much. Without a doubt, that's going on right across the country. I've seen it in many places, but it's a great display in your area.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'm concerned, and Canadians are concerned. If the Conservatives are blocking the supplementary estimates, what's at stake for programs like that, which are feeding families?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

We have to quit blocking the House and get the estimates through. That's what's required. They have to be passed to make sure these funds are available to the people who need them right across the country.

You see the value of it. You see the results of what can take place when programs like this are put in place, and I was certainly pleased to be there to see it. Of course, it's just a demonstration of what takes place right across the country and the need there is.

That's so important, Tim.

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you for that.

With the recent election in the United States of Donald Trump as president, farmers here and producers across the country are wondering how this new U.S. administration could impact our agriculture sector.

You have experience working with the previous Trump administration. Can you share with us how you can help prepare our government for the challenges that might be ahead?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, I was there during the last Trump administration. We got along very well, to say the least, with the Secretary of Agriculture. In fact, the secretary ended up on my farm. I invite people to my home—to my farm. My wife says, “Quit inviting people or they're going to come.”

When the Secretary of Agriculture says he's coming, that's quite a fuss. It was a great fuss. He came to the farm and, in fact, we had a great rapport. I hope to be able to deal with Secretary-elect Rollins. I understand she was brought up on a farm and understands the agricultural sector.

Without question, for the beef industry right across the country, we understand that sometimes the cattle go back and forth across the border four or five times before they're butchered. They might be born in Saskatchewan, raised down west or in Florida, grazed on the prairie and then go back and forth three or four times. These are the kinds of issues that are so intertwined.

Everything is so intertwined with us and the U.S. and they're such a valuable customer. We understand that. I think the Prime Minister's trip last week was so important because you have to be there and you have to make sure you keep those great relations up. We will continue to do that.